Sharing the Road Brings Out the Passion

"Can we say the same about drivers/cars?"

Mantle, what if you went through a few minutes of check listing the common complaints drivers accuse cyclist of doing, and ask "do drivers/cars do the same"?

One by one he can say something like:

1. Cyclist (some) do not obey traffic laws.
Car and driver? the same

2. Cyclist act threatening when passed or encountered on the road.
Car and driver? the same

3. Dangerous
Car and driver? the same... actually worse

4. Cyclist dont pay attention or operate erratically
Car and driver? the same

5. Cyclist act as if they own the road

same
same
same
same

Get the point? What if you stipulated... look, drivers, we cant complain about these aspects unless we cleaned up our act. In fact our situation accounts for so many accidents/deaths to not only fellow drivers, but to pedestrians and cyclist too, so its pretty much unfair to levy these complaints to cyclist.

now, lets set aside these disputes and get to the issues that still remain... remember none of the previous complaints can be argued, because they are true of drivers as well.

Car versus Bicycle...

lets debate:

what remains to be said about the cyclist?

What benefits does the car provide over the bicycle?

What benefits does the bicycle provide over the car?

and so on

It was passionate all right, and LARRY did nothing to cure the ignorance that exists about the CVC. Next time Larry, use your position of power to help educate the public both cyclists and drivers.

thanks

I hope you take the time to gain knowledge and to host people who have knowledge of cycling issues in Los Angeles.

"It will also be difficult to avoid some riders who claim the full lane, regardless of whether there are parked cars, a narrow lane, or a road hazard that makes lane ownership adviseable. It might be legal, but it's sometimes unnecessary and, in my opinion, rude to needlessly hold up car traffic."

LARRY.

pull your pants up. Your BIAS is showing.

"in my opinion, rude to needlessly hold up car traffic. "

In my opinion it is rude to needlessly drive your car, while the glaciers are melting.

What do you think Mantle? Do you agree?

I was headed home from seeing patients at a Long Beach facility today,when I stopped at a 4 way stop, checked all ways, and began to move..suddenly, a cyclist with no hands on handlebars, talking on a cellphone, blew thru the stop sign without even looking in my direction. I slammed on my brakes to avoid hitting the nitwit, who no doubt is unaware of how close he came to eternity....and who no doubt also thinks accidents are the fault of motorists. Hope he has good insurance, he is unlikely to last.

One problem here is that many car drivers see a bike rider acting dickishly and then make the leap to 'all bike riders are dicks'. That's not true, by a mile. Clearly from the Mandeville case we see that poor behavior is not limited to bike riders, and when you get a jerk behind the wheel of a car, it's no longer an annoyance, it can be deadly. My feeling is that the guy who rides his bike like a jerk is probably a jerk when he gets in a car, too. So it's not the mode of transport, it's the jerk.

Cars are awarded the overwhelming majority of infrastructure dollars compared to bikes - it's not even close. You spend much time out there on a bike and you are quickly made to realize that you are second class. You piss people off if you use the sidewalk, and you piss them off if you use the street. (You piss SOME off - most car drivers are really respectful - in my experience) You are forced to go rogue out there, you're really left to fend for yourself. So the fact that bike riders improvise, for convenience or for safety, is to be expected. The roads aren't made for us, the laws aren't based on our impact or our threat to others. So we improvise. Car drivers may see it as lawlessness, but they should try it sometime, you learn to make do however you can.

That doesn't excuse rudeness. I live by Santa Monica College and I see some true retards out there on bikes, salmoning up the wrong side of the road and blowing through crowded intersections. Obviously Darwin has plans for these scofflaws.

I think that car drivers should spend a bit of time on a bike - for many reasons. Health, sense of community, and for a little understanding of what we face. We're out there literally 'pulling our own weight', and really don't deserve the intolerance some car drivers send our way. And hey, when they pull into that empty parking space, maybe they could send a little goodwill to those of us who left our car at home.

To say that cyclists are "difficult to avoid" when they claim a traffic lane is nonsensical, unless, like Dr. Thompson, your intent is to "accidentally" run them down. Cyclists that ride in the gutter are far more likely to be hit by a motorist who doesn't see them.

When a cyclist takes a traffic lane, it is either because the lane width is insufficient to safely share with a car or there is damage in the right half of the lane that makes riding there dangerous. It is not an attempt to be "rude" and slow down or block motorized traffic.

It is apparent that certain drivers misinterpret this behavior as arrogance. It is not. As a utilitarian cyclist, I have learned through experience that if I am overly considerate on the road and neglect to ride in a safe position, I could be sideswiped by a driver who can't be bothered to slow down and pass me with adequate space, or possibly slammed by a driver-side door, thrown open into my path by someone in a parked car.

If I have to make a choice between appearing arrogant and being killed or crippled, I will side with arrogance.

I was riding my cargo bike in the right hand lane of a street in North East Los Angeles. I was loaded down with another bicycle (in a box) in the front of my cargo bike.

An irresponsible car driver sped up to pass me, cut in front of me and immediately had to brake at a red light. Once the light turned green, and with me on her right, the reckless motorist slowly steered her car into my bicycle to access a nearby gas station.

Does my story counter the silly anecdote above about the stop-sign running cyclist?

I'm sorry, but for as many cyclists people claim to see blowing through stop signs, I have yet to see a car actually come to a physical stop at a stop sign on my morning commute - most opt for the "California Roll". I have yet to see an automobile drive the length of its journey at or below the posted speed limit. When it comes to lawlessness, recklessness, and endangering the lives of others, you will be hard pressed to find as nefarious and foul an offender as the private automobile driver in Los Angeles.

Larry's handling of this issue pushed people towards pointless anecdotes. Where was his research team with unsafe intersections, proper (safe) cycling techniques, the cost of all the crashes and deaths in LA County due to inattentive drivers? The level of discourse was miserably low and an insult to the usually top-notch talk that takes place on AirTalk.

Cars don't have rights.
Bicycles don't have rights.

People have rights. (...well they should, as should all living beings, but that's another topic.)

"It will also be difficult to avoid some riders who claim the full lane, regardless of whether there are parked cars, a narrow lane, or a road hazard that makes lane ownership adviseable. It might be legal, but it's sometimes unnecessary and, in my opinion, rude to needlessly hold up car traffic."

Would you feel the same way if this was one of your family members riding her bike? Imagine it is a 12-year-old, a grandmother, etc.

I have never seen a cyclist take the lane unless there was some reason they felt it was safer to do so. Just because a motorist does not see the reason does not mean there is not one. There are hundreds of obstacles for cyclists that do not apply to motorists. Here are a few:

Storm Drains
Cracked Pavement
Swarm of Bees
Puddles
Mud
Loose Gravel
Steep Incline
Dogs
Broken Glass
Small Debris

And there are obstacles that apply to both motorists and cyclists that affect cyclist in different ways. Here are more examples:

Driveways
Intersections
Other Cyclists
Low hanging Branches
Low hanging Street signs
Pot holes