Cheating teens likely to become lying adults

Older people have the experience to know that lying to get ahead can backfire. Younger people are still idealistic and might believe they can take an easy route to success by lying. I think the research only proves that maturity counts for something.

Could it be that lying is instinctive and social grooming curbs it? If so, then the social grooming has been lacking. The question then is "what type of social grooming has changed or fallen away"?. I'm sure that the answer is multifaceted, but one possible contributor could be testing methods in school. At a time when students had to write out thoughtful answers, a student could not easily fool a teacher. This challenged students to work for a good grade. In an era when multiple-choice questions are the norm, it is much easier for students fool the teacher and get away with working less by cheating.

Don't blame it on single Mom's and working parents. Our society has changed in SO many ways and we don't enforce the rules, especially for athletes and celebrities.

Where does what seems like a lack of faith fit in?

People don't seem to realize how they diminish themselves when they are dishonest. When I was young, there were ethical codes in media and each story had a moral. The ethics of the entertainment industry are out of control.

There are several components that make this man's study alarmist, that have not been brought up. Those 50 and older have the experience to see that it has not been necessary to lie and cheat to get where they are in their lives. Another, glaring omission is that those 50 and basically of adult age have the real punishments of jail time and being sued as disincentives. Those of high school age rarely suffer such repercussions for bad behavior.

Agreed, to teenagers the repercussions of lying and cheating results in a failed exams or reprimanding from their parents, whereas older people with much greater responsibilities have to much more serious consequences to consider.

How dare you include single parenting in your list of causes for the breakdown of honesty in society. You have no research to this effect, and as the single mother of a remarkably honest and ethical child I resent the insult. I would rather suggest that wealth and privilege without consequences leads to dishonesty.

Shame on you.

One way teens differ from their parents is by being even more steeped in a culture that emphasizes representations (mostly digital and image based). When you are surrounded by gadgets that stress digital representations, image, etc., you may naturally draw the inference that representations are more important than reality. Though is is not quite the language in which my own college students put this point, I think it is how they tend to think.

If this accounts for the problem, then what we are up against is the material culture in which we live, the kinds of tools, images, and representations we are surrounded by. Hard to imagine how to resist such a tide.

From a macro point of view it is simply a symptom of a decaying culture.

No big surprise here

Most of "leaders" like our President, Vice Presidents, Senators and Congressional 'leaders" are LIARS. The go on Fox News or MS-NBC and lie right to the camera on the voting records donors policy positions etc.

Almost ALL of the best performing Major League Baseball players in the last decade or so have been found to be liars and cheaters.

Some of the most successful executives and traders on Wall Street are liars.

It seem like 75% of more of the "successful" people or "role models" in the U.S. for the last 20 years or so are LIARS and have been mostly rewarded for it with little or no public downside. Clinton was never impeached. Dick Cheney was never prosecuted. John Mack now CEO for Morgan Stanley was never prosecuted for insider trading by Bush DOJ. Even when they do get caught rarely does anything happen.

So is there ANY incentive in America for doing the right by people anymore when all the powerful people that are lying, cheating and stealing are being rewarded for it?

Mike F.
Riverside CA

I wonder about objective truth vs. a culture of relativism. "Back in the day" the 10 Commandments were posted in the classroom to remind students "thou shalt not lie" and "thou shalt not steal", among other things.

I'm not sure if this is a cause of technology or the people that represent our society. Rather, I think that the increasing rate of cheating is due to increasing competition among young people and them thinking that they can only get to their dream school by cheating. I also remember being in high school and hearing rumors that my fellow students were cheating and getting good grades. True or not, these rumors stoke ire especially among students when they worked so hard to achieve a good grade, so why work so hard when cheating is an option?

I think the generational difference is partly due to religious up-bringings, or lack there of. I am in my 40's and was brought up with religion, but none of my peers who are raising children are doing so in a religious context. One is far less likely to lie if they view it as a SIN.

the study (i don't think) has determined weather these people will 'actually' lie, cheat or if they believe it's an easier path? i am near 50 and friends of mine were
trained to 'cheat' in High School Basketball. (holding, etc.) are we sure it is so much different today?

Let's start with who the three top bad-influence teen idols are right now as presented this morning on ABC-News.

1] Miley Cirus
2] Britney Spears
3] Kanye West

There is the role model presented to our youth and they depict exactly the later in life results of this study as internalized by today's and I think we can easily assume, yesterday's idols.

Larry, what an interesting guest to have. His report is eye-opening- 51% of current younger Americans think they have to lie and cheat to succeed!

Is this really not an age-old question of character and how is it formed? For many years, our education has steered away from character formation in favor of technical training.

I think of the adage: "Sow an attitude and reap an act. Sow an act and reap and character. Sow a character and reap a destiny."

Do the current findings point to a result of trying to "protect" our youth from God and prayer in public education? Where are young people taught deep issues of morality and questions of higher reality?

I am reminded of Russian writer Alexander Solzhenitsyn, a Nobel Prize winner in Literature, who talked of hearing his parents discuss the ravages of the land under Communism during the days of Lenin. "All these things have happened to us because we have forgotten God.:

I disagree with the conclusions from this research. Lying and cheating has been around since the dawn of civilization and people just learn as they mature from child to adult. (Eg: Babies are born extremely greedy and jealous, but this does not mean that child will carry those compulsive emotions into adulthood. Of course if you asked an adult if they were greedy as a baby they will say, "No.")

I am myself an educator. But I must say that a reasonable, alert person can conclude that there is a great deal of phonyness in high school, and indeed in many many human institutions. Just as you lie to people you don't respect, or take to be liars, you may lie in the context of an institution that feels suffused with phonyness.

the study (i don't think) has determined weather these people will 'actually' lie, cheat or if they believe it's an easier path? i am near 50 and friends of mine were
trained to 'cheat' in High School Basketball. (holding, etc.) are we sure it is so much different today? i also believe that this problem is worse here in LA, than
any other place i have lived!

I hope I don't open a can of worms on this but I am curious if your guest has a breakdown based on the cultural background and ethnicity of the respondents.

Your guest today has a critical lack of faith in people and humanity in general. From his rather thin study to his assumption that "personal internet use" at work could only be playing games or looking at TMZ. I would wonder how much similar "logic" makes it into his study. Give me a break. Who funds this guy?

I hate to say it but has anyone ever heard of the truthful white-foot and the lying-black-foot.

Younger age group 17-24 means majority of them are in college level education (considering, as you said, socio-economic scale was not established). I have seen people who cheat in order to get ahead in their classes--in fact, it is probably more common than I have observed. (either copying homework, in exam, etc)

What I am concern with, being a student myself, is how science majors also cheats. I would expect fellow-inspired-scientists would be far more honest following scientific integrity. Not so the case. I'm somewhat disappointed.

This guest obviously has an agenda; probably religion in schools. I don't think the "research" he has backs up any of the conclusions he makes. Lying might very well be the world's oldest vice...if you trick the tiger into NOT eating you, is it "lying"? Thank goodness the listeners added some complexity and intelligence to this discussion!

I heard this on my way to my office and had to comment on this topic.

Part of my work involves working in Mexico and other Latin American countries with governmental agencies as well as the regular run of the mill citizens.

In these very religious countries (so the lack of God in our classrooms is NOT the reason), it is very common to hold the belief that lying, cheating and stealing is THE only way to get ahead.

The consequences of having generations believe and practice this is pretty self-evident to me. These countries, although wealthy in resources, haven't been able to progress into leading first-world nations.

When these people need to work within the constructs of US rules, they are totally unable to do it. If a test is involved, they immediately want to know where they can get the crib sheet. If a law or rule is involved, they want to know whose palm they have to grease to get the desired result.

Everywhere I go in Latin America, Americans are praised for their fairness and their ability to follow the rules. They do this as they jump ahead of a person in line with the shrug of how undisciplined their citizenry is.

I think we are steadily moving in this direction. And it is alarming that such a high numbers of teenagers believe that this is the path to success. I see a future with people cutting corners that later lie to cover it up.

Let's think about whether we want a physician or a teacher like that.

Things are no worse now than they used to be. There were just as many liars and cheats in grade school 50 years ago as there are now. The difference being that they didn't have such studies back then and as people grow up they tend to have stronger set of moral values than when they were younger. This study reveals nothing new or different.

As a physician who is a son of the greatest generation. I as a child, was fortunate to see the hero of General Dwight D. Eisenhower in person as he became president of my navy fathers United States. As a Medical Student my hero John F. Kennedy wasassinated during my early medical school. President Johnson and Congress then extended a separate physicians draft to age 35 as I worked in the airforce hospital to watch the next generation of casualties of our first great failed war. And the first president to resign in history stating "I am not a crook" after fifty thousand american casualties. After completion as a major in the United States Airforce Medical Corps. I watched President Carter Unsuccesfully attempt to rescue American diplomats held hostage in Iran by their current government. President Regans CIA wars resulted in the Iran Contra debacle in central America. Geore H.W. Bush saved Kuwait, but failed to improve the middle east. Next President Clinton through his own doing was formally impeached. Our current never ending wars from the Bush Dynasty have mismanaged the best interest of our people. As a boy I wore the sailor suit my father sent home from the south pacific with great pride, as I preserved in my childhood photo album. When I returned home from the Vietnam War, I altered my Majors insignias and replaced them with peace symbols which I gave to my son. And now within my sons lifetime, his high school friend wishing to be a hero, volunteered for the Marines. Was deployed to Iraq, and within six weeks was killed in March 2007. My son and classmates flew his military funeral, to honor their twenty year old fried. This reality of war casualties in the current generation was hidden in media coverage by the Bush administration. And only now President Obama is honoring the young men and women who are dying in our never ending war cycle as general Eisenhower warned us in his final speech " To beware of the military industrial complex" more than half a century ago. After "making our country the greatest nation for the safety of the next generations." If I were the same child who as a boy had proudly worn the military uniform of my father to fast forward the reality, facing my sons and daughters I can only hope, they can learn from the dishonesties of our leaders in wartime.

As a physician who is a son of the greatest generation. I as a child, I was fortunate to see the hero of General Dwight D. Eisenhower in person as he became president of my navy fathers United States. As a Medical Student my hero John F. Kennedy was assainated during my early medical school. During the Vietnam war President Johnson and Congress then extended a separate physicians draft to age 35 as I worked in the air force hospital to watch the next generation of casualties of our first great failed war. And the first president to resign in history stating "I am not a crook" after fifty thousand american casualties. After completion as a major in the United States Air force Medical Corps. I watched President Carter Unsuccesfully attempt to rescue American diplomats held hostage in Iran by their current government. President Regans CIA wars resulted in the Iran Contra debacle in central America. Geore H.W. Bush saved Kuwait, but failed to improve the middle east. Next President Clinton through his own doing was formally impeached. Our current never ending wars from the Bush Dynasty have mismanaged the best interest of our people. As a boy I wore the sailor suit my father sent home from the south pacific with great pride, as I preserved in my childhood photo album. When I returned home from the Vietnam War, I altered my Majors insignias and replaced them with peace symbols which I gave to my son. And now within my sons lifetime, his high school friend wishing to be a hero, volunteered for the Marines. Was deployed to Iraq, and within six weeks was killed in March 2007. My son and classmates flew to his military funeral, to honor their twenty year old fried. This reality of war casualties in the current generation was hidden in media coverage by the Bush administration. And only now President Obama is honoring the young men and women who are dying in our never ending war cycle as General Eisenhower warned us in his final speech " To beware of the military industrial complex" more than half a century ago. After "making our country the greatest nation for the safety of the next generations." If I were the same child who as a boy had proudly had worn the military uniform of my father to fast forward to the reality, of today facing my sons and daughters. I can only hope, they can learn from the dishonesties of our leaders in wartime.

Perhaps the major problem with dissecting the behavior of Madoff and Bonds, and its impact on our culture and/or societal mores, is that there hangs over the problem like a huge dark vulture the specter of right vs. wrong. I don't think that is what we base our decisions on in the absence of proof that it is what underlies the punishment/reward paradigm. If, at least for the sake of argument, we remove the intellectual reasons for behavior, we're left with the simple behavioral rationale of "what works". We do what we perceive works. That's because of the dna we possess that propels us evolutionarily forward. Once you begin the analysis based on the survival of the fittest theory, you have to embrace the notion of gangs as controlling entities. It's also called "national sovereignty" - the biggest gang, measured by physical boundaries. We have no choice in this era of almost immediate knowledge transfer but to accept the big lie that the US wins wars because it is always on the "right" side. It's always been pretty simple - might makes right, and the more strength we can muster by proclaiming that we are right, the more might we will have. Isn't the US the birthplace of marketing? So, there's enough in this subject for a book, obviously. What does it mean to our youth to be forced to decide whether Bonds and Madoff are to be reviled for cheating or worshiped for becoming obscenely wealthy as a result of having cheated? As long as the gang they are tying to join uses possession of great sums of money as measurements for qualification, they'll cheat. I once had a boss - the head of a trust company for a major Los Angeles investment firm - tell me it was his sworn duty to the shareholders to push laws and ethics to the absolute maximum while staying out of jail and keeping his job. He had no compunction concerning possible "wrong" behavior - just what worked. Is the final moral of the Bonds/Madoff stories "don't break the rules"? No, I don't think so. It's "don't get caught". THAT is what our youth (and, for that matter, the rest of us) sees.

Shame on KPPC and Larry Mantle for buying into that bogus Josephson survey. That was nothing more than a marketing survey for Josephson to find another market for his "products" and you fell for it. You gave them just the publicity and crediblity they were hoping for. The "interviewee" was completely unable to support his "facts" when challenged with intelligent questions.