Pavement wars: cyclists vs motorists

The biggest issue on this has never been addressed. Cyclists no longer obey the traffic laws. They zip through red lights and stop signs. They never give the right of way at 4way or 3 way stops. How many times has a cyclist run a light or sign in front you? Turn signals??? The biggest, is they are required to ride single file.. Not 2 or 3 abreast. And yes, they have the right to ride in the middle of the lane if it is unsafe to ride near the curb. Any article you read about this issue never discusses the vehicle code and how cyclists no longer obey it. This not The Tour De France. These are streets to be shared with other motor vehicles. Maybe if cyclist began to show respect to the cars and trucks on the road again, it would be reciprocated.

I agree that cyclists need to follow the rules of the road. But that is no excuse for drivers threatening cyclists with their cars. A big issues is that many, many motorists have no idea that cyclists even have a right to the road, or how to safely pass with them. They don't give 'em enough space, scream at them to ride on the sidewalk, honk at them to move out of their way so they can get to work 3 seconds faster. We need a LOT more education of drivers (maybe in driver's ed) on the rights of cyclists, how to co-exist with them (and responsibilities of riding a bike too.)

As a defensive driver, one rule I have is to never trust anyone on a bicycle: you never know what they are going to do, and they can do it so quickly...particularly if they are kids.

The city planners/engineers need to spend some money and time developing clearly delineated bike paths for cyclists. Even without road rage, bikes and cars don't mix. I've almost been hit many times both riding on the road and the sidewalk. Cars don't expect to see cyclists, and when then do, it can be confusing for them to know what to do. The truth is that bikes and cars move at very different rates, and have different needs in terms of safety. Bikers are very vulnerable.

I agree with the previous commenter. Bicyclists need to start obeying traffic rules. riding on sidewalks, taking a right on red and then looping back to get through a redlight, etc.

per the law, bicyclist have equal access to the roadways of california, save the freeways. traffic law needs to be followed by auto drivers AND bicyclists. the fact that out of this incident came the "bicyclist's bill of rights," but there is really no need for that bill because the law says bicyclists have equal access to roadways.

I run stop signs and occasionally red lights. The reason I do it is for my own safety. If I obey the traffic laws and stop at every sign and light I am continually passed by the same irritated motorists over and over again, and this causes me to feel more and more vulnerable. If I run the signs then I can get ahead of the cars then they can pass me on larger, wider, safer roads where the cars can actually make some headway on a bike.

The problem that I have with cyclists is that they do not respect/obey traffic laws. I live in Long Beach and often have to stop my car for a bicyclist that just ran a stop sign. If bicyclists want to share the road, they should respect and obey all traffic laws.

Unfortunately the relationship between bicyclists and motorists is sometimes hostile, as the caller from Mandeville said. What must be acknowledged, though, is the inherent and disproportionate risk that cyclists bear in everyday encounters on Mandeville and elsewhere. My only protection as a cyclist is a helmet, while most of the motorists I encounter under unfortunate conditions seem to drive very large vehicles that inhibit driver visibility while posing a most serious threat to two-wheelers.

I ride my bike daily to work about 4 miles each way and I rarely have issues with drivers. I think that cyclist are more defensive cause we are more vulnerable and that drivers need education on how to share the road with cyclist so that they know not to honk and how much space to gicve cyclist.

Educate us Larry. What are the laws. Can bicyclists ride in packs and hold up motor traffic or are they required to ride single file? That is really what is at issue. I often see riders riding side by side with complete disregard to the motorists that they are slowing down behind them.

As a cyclist and driver, I would say perhaps we would all benefit from a deeper education about cyclists as vehicles when we study our California Vehicle Codebook for the intermittent driver license exams.
What are the rules for bicycles in bike lanes? How about turns?
I feel that the tension comes from two different directions sometimes:
drivers who don't cycle and whose fear of hitting a cyclist often morphs into anger, and cyclists who occasionally behave in ways that seem arrogant and entitled: jamming through yellow lights, macho-manning in large ungainly packs that give motorists no clue as to what they might do or where they might go on the roadway.
Making the education about what limits both vehicle operators have in a dispassionate way through driver education could really make a difference.

Perhaps the reason there are so many agressive bicyclists is because you HAVE to be a bit of a extreme athelete to brave the streets of LA. I bike 6 miles each way to UCLA and I never stop feeling terrified. Most people don't feel safe enough to make bicycling a regular option. Given that it can positively contribute to 2 of our greatest societal challenges - the obesity epidemic and climate change, we need to make bicycling a viable option for more people.

about west hollywood - what is up with that city. because the streets are unsafe, they allow bikes to ride on the sidewalk. why not make the streets safer? that is really the issue, instead of enforcing traffic laws that keep residents safe - people want quarantine bikes from the road, or complain about this or that - enforce the traffic code.

I'm both a driver and an avid cyclist. I've encountered ineptitude and hostility from both parties while on the road. Drivers have squeezed me off the road and into parked cars, and even yelled at me to get off the road. On the other hand, I regularly see cyclists intentionally disregard lane lines and street signals. When I honk, many become verbally hostile.

Whether a driver or a cyclist, if you aren't obeying the rules of the road, you're eventually going to get what you deserve.

I'm a cyclist and bike commuter from Pasadena. The biggest thing we can do is stop the competition on the roads by building more bike lanes and bike paths. If the automobiles and bikes each have their own designated space, there will be a lot less competition for road space, which is what leads to road rage for drivers and to aggressive riding by cyclists.

If automobiles treat cyclists as a nuisance on the road that slows them down and are in their way, the more cyclists respond defensively to claim their space on the road. And the more cyclists claim their rights to be on the road, the more of a nuisance they become to drivers. It's a building cycle.

Cyclists and automobiles both need to agree to peacefully share the peace and treat each other respectfully, then automobiles will stop seeing cyclists as a nuisance and cyclists will stop riding so aggressively to claim their space on the road.

Bike lanes are a great way to peacefully and respectfully share the road. And the more we have, the more auto drivers will also be cyclists, creating understanding between the groups.

Bikes really should NOT be allowed on some curvy mountain roads. I've had a number of close calls in my daily drive on Malibu Canyon Rd....You round a curve to find a bicyclist or two just ahead of you...oncoming traffic prevents swerving to the left; fast moving traffic behind you makes slowing down dangerous! And then the cyclist scram or ..um....gesture their displeasure at ME for the close call!. That road was not built with bike rides in mind. Maybe some roads should be posted "no bicycles". Where I live (south bay) we have a number of bike lanes marked on the pavement....and that works very well. Maybe we can make more bike lanes on some of the boulivards.

I find that riding on the sidewalk is more dangerous because of all the driveways where cars can't see us coming. On a side note we both parties have people that drive or ride awefully. Just as many drivers are guilty of traffic violations as riders are and that is important to remember

All vehicles need to learn to follow the rules. As a cyclist, I am practically alone in stopping at stop signs, using hand signals to indicate which way I'm turning. But key is for everybody to slow the f___ down. Mandeville Canyon should be driven at 15-20 MPH. There is no right to drive that road at 45MPH. Of course drivers are going to be impatient driving behind bikes, but that's the price you pay for living in a civil world.

there are differences between weekend road riders and commuters.

for the most part cyclists way over-react to drivers small mistakes. humility is in much need on both sides.

As a cyclist who obeys the rules of traffic I resent the young posses of hipsters clogging up the streets at night, purposefully not getting out of the way. Basically giving a bad name to cyclists. They yelled at me once while I was at a stoplight "get out of your death trap car" or some such nonesense. Lets face it, they all have cars too, but they think they are morally superior to a driver. All these kids on track bikes need to get serious tickets and hit them where it hurts, their trust funds.

I am an avid motorcycle rider who rides the sothern california canyons every weekend; these are mostly single lane canyon roads which are shared by motorists and motorcycle riders. Most of the encounters between motocyclist/motorists and cyclists end well, usually with the cycylists moving to the side of the road to allow those behind him/her to pass.

But on occasions, there are cyclists who will ride 2 or 3 abreast, heading uphill, going 5-10 mphs, taking up the whole lane. These canyons are usually posted at 25mph to 45mph. Whats worse is that sometimes these cyclists will not move to the side of the road when there are other motorists being held up behind these cyclists. Such riding is clearly in violation of CA Veh Code for impeding traffic; more importantly, impeding traffic in a canyon road is very dangerous as motorists do not expect to come around a corner going 25 mph and see a cyclists going 5 mph blocking the lane.

I live in the Conejo valley/Malibu canyon area. There are wide roads and ample bike lanes. It is a very popular area for cycling. Yet, almost every weekend I see cyclists engage in dangerous behavior, completely ignoring traffic laws, let alone basic safety concepts, and accidents are narrowly averted - or, in my case, not. The cyclists ride several abreast and outside the bike lanes, and some come right out of the pack from behind into traffic lanes without even looking to see if there are cars. This happened to me and caused a driver to slam on her brakes, causing a three car accident last year. There were about 15 cyclists involved and not one stopped to be sure the people involved were okay. I do not ride side-by-side with my friends in cars when we're out for pleasure, and the cyclists shouldn't either, especially where the road width doesn't allow it. I also stop at traffic lights and stop signs, and yield for pedestrians. I see no reason why they should not be required to do so too, and why they should not be ticketed, just as drivers are, when they fail to do so. I often see the sheriff's allow someone on a bike to get away with something they'd never allow of a motorist. I respect cyclists' right to their part of the road; they should respect motorists right to theirs.

Talking with fellow riders is a natural thing to do on a bike, just as it is in a car. While I don't defend cyclists who ride five or six abreast, perhaps laws need to be changed to allow two people to ride side-by-side. In designated bike lanes there is room for two people to do and stay within that space.

Bikes really should NOT be allowed on some curvy mountain roads. I've had a number of close calls in my daily drive on Malibu Canyon Rd....You round a curve to find a bicyclist or two just ahead of you...oncoming traffic prevents swerving to the left; fast moving traffic behind you makes slowing down dangerous! And then the cyclist scream or ..um....gesture their displeasure at ME for the close call!. That road was not built with bikers in mind. Maybe some roads should be posted "no bicycles". Where I live (south bay) we have a number of bike lanes marked on the pavement....and that works very well. Maybe we can make more bike lanes on some of the boulivards.

You should have had a CHP or LAPD representative on the show.

More people need to be reminded that cyclists have the same rights to the road as cars, and are permitted to ride in the traffic lane. I live near a 2 lane, winding, hilly road popular w/bikes but also a main car thoroughfare. I used to be impatient behind cyclists, but now that I am often a dog walker on this same road, I see cyclists as citizens investing time and energy in a healthy lifestyle. That means fewer people in line at the hospital, pharmacy, etc and increased productivity!

I think the larger problem is that LA for too long as been organized more towards cars. For example stores that only have doors that open to parking lots. The city isn't set up towards cyclists there isn't that many bike paths, and in general most people never look both ways at a corner.

thanks

Eric S

When was the last time you saw a cyclist ticketed?

One of the callers mentioned an incident where there was no bike lane and he passed several cyclists. The cyclists became angry with him because he passed too close. Did he pass legally? Doesn't the bicycle occupy the lane in the case described? I believe the passing vehicle would have to pass using the oncoming lane just as it would have to pass a motorcycle.

Has anyone had a run-in with these new "bike gangs?" They ride around in groups of what seems like hundreds on those trendy brakeless speed bikes. They are SERIOUSLY dangerous. They run red lights, they block streets, and they are scream at you for just driving. I had a run in with them late at night in Venice and they were truly frightening. They are making a bad name for cyclists.

Trying to call in with little success - but no one seems to have mentioned communication. There need to be as many resources for cyclists to learn the rules of the road as there are for motorists! No, a bicycle is not a Motor Vehicle per se. But legislation exists around the use of roads and the use of two wheels or four. It's the state's responsibility to support and delineate the behaviors it condones - like riding a bike on the roadways. Yes, both sides of the bike/car argument need to make some behavioral adjustments. I was slammed off my own bike by an inattentive driver when I was entirely in the right of traffic laws. I do take the issue somewhat personally. LA is a great city to bike around - so many neighborhoods - but there need to be more resources for cyclists and motorists alike about how to obey the law and to coexist.

In Idaho, cyclists are allowed to treat Stop signs as Yield signs. That is, *if* they can safely establish that there is no cross traffic as they approach a Stop sign, they may roll through it. Otherwise, they must cede the right of way. It works just fine.

The caller who insists that even solo cyclists have no place in Mandeville Cyn must be a bad driver. I used to bike that road every day, and never had any problem with competent drivers.

My husband commutes by bicycle because he enjoys riding and feels like its a waste of time to sit in a car when you could get some exercise and improve the environment by reducing carbon emissions on the road! He is a defensive driver and a defensive cyclist. There are aggressive drivers on the road, as there are some aggressive cyclists. Many times, he NEEDS to ride a little wide on the street because motorists do NOT respect cyclists and drive at more than the speed limit within inches of the bike as the motorist passes. This is extremely dangerous and he and I have been BLOWN off the road by the wind generated by the large vehicles, buses and big rigs. It is frightening and I fear for my husband's safety daily. Motorists need to be educated and they themselves ride a bicycle to see how vulnerable it is. Motorists may have one story to tell when a group of riders seem to take over the road. This is rare. A cyclists has a daily story for when single motorists or groups of cars take over the road. The road is to by shared! Many times riders are going down narrow windy streets at the speed limit, so they are not blocking motorists that obey the speed limit...only the motorists that want to speed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What is not being emphasized here is that bicycling is a solution many of our traffic, climate change, and public health issues we have today. Both sides need to respect each other and everyone needs to understand that cyclists are just trying to be part of the solution. What is needed is mutual respect, education, and a reorientation of our roads in order to create safer roads for all.

we need a brave oficial who would be able to think of the benefits of implementing forward-thinking ideas. case in point saving cyclists lives while saving the environment. way to implement it: a well thought-out plan to make some streets in the city cyclists-only, paired with clearly marked bike lanes and mass-information regarding new rules of the road as well as fines... say all this in a convincing way and we have a win-win situation. thanks larry, u r the best.

I believe a lot of the issues come from the understanding of law by both parties. As per traffic laws, cyclist have the same right on the roads as other vehicles. It is no different for the cars have to slow down for other cars driving slowly. Similarly cyclists need to understand that rude behavior does not go anywhere.

There's a confusing issue here, mos of this discussion so far has been about riding groups decked out in racing form. What about regular riders, commuters, and the majority of people who ride?

If you'd like to share your bike experiences with the KPCC newsroom and help us cover future bike-related stories, please click the link on my name. I'm also putting together a slideshow of So Cal cyclists and their bikes. You'll also become part of our Insight Network of news sources for public radio.

I have cycled all my life. I also ride motorcycles, scooters and drive a car 5-10 K a year. The problem is a particular arrogant cyclist usually the enthusiasts with all the kit and expensive bikes. They go out onto the road determined to be difficult, we need laws, single file cycling mandatory.

I grew up in Tucson, AZ where certain side streets were designated as bike "friendly" and a route was created, going from the University to the east side of town. Many of the streets were changed to one way, putting fewer cars on the designated routes Maybe the city could do something like this for cyclists, making it easier to get around.

I also believe that cyclists need to observe the traffic rules, including NOT talking or texing on their cell phones! I almost hit a kid who was TEXTING and riding his bike the other day!

Some cyclists don't obey traffic laws, and some motorists do not obey traffic laws. The notion that only cyclists engage in foolish or dangerous behavior on the road is ignorant, especially in LA, where perhaps the world's worst and most aggressive drivers reside. I doubt anyone would disagree that illegal behavior in any vehicle is unacceptable. The difference is that a car is a far more leathal to a person than a bike.
The drivers that are calling have issues that go way beyond "safety". I suggest that they seek anger therapy before they kill someone and find themselves on the wrong end of a vehicular manslaughter conviction. Having moved from Manhattan to LA, I felt safer in the big city than I do with LA drivers.

I ride on the sidewalk along Loz Feliz Boulevard when I'm on my way into and back from Griffith Park because I've found it really dangerous to use the street. There is no bike lane and once I got hit by a passing motorist who didn't even seem to know he had hit me -- he didn't stop. I was very lucky -- just a scratch or two -- but it knocked his side mirror clean off. You gotta do what you gotta do!

the speed on most roads is between 35 and 45 MPH and most people drive well over that on the public roads and then they have to slam on their brakes when they do see a cyclist, if motorist slow down and actually drive around the speed limit they will have time to see cyclist and wont be surprised.

It makes me disappointed that while Los Angeles is plagued with traffic, smog, and now facing global warming, drivers don't seem willing to support and celebrate people who are getting out of their cars and on their bikes. Biking is a great solution to traffic, global warming, and even obesity issues. Drivers, people biking is a good thing! Let them take up some space on the road, watch out for them and make biking safe, and while they may seem to slow you down, remember they are doing everyone a favor!

I'm amazed at the discussion this morning. I see both sides of the argument however, I've visited and lived in Amsterdam for weeks at a time in the past. And in Amsterdam, the streets there are so narrow and so difficult to drive on yet everyone there gets along. There are tons (TONS!!) of bikes everywhere, trucks making deliveries, scooters and vespas and there are no problems. Yet in the U.S. there is a chauvinistic attitude about driving a car versus driving any other type of transportation. We are prejudiced in the U.S. because the 'car' is such an indigenous part of the fabric of society, especially in Los Angeles. I think we can learn a great deal from the Dutch culture on how the bicycle is such a permanent part of transportation in a major urban center.

In regards to the new police chief, cyclists are much more interested in knowing if the law will be enforced to protect the rights of bikers to share the road. The problem is that thousands of cases involving hit and runs never make it to the front page. The police department has been given free reign to interpret the law as they see it (as motorists) Despite the fact the law is written into the DMV handbook for all to read. I have been an avid biker in Boston, Los Angeles, New York, Amsterdam, and Barcelona. I can tell you with absolute confidence that any aggressive biking you witness on the road will evaporate when the city, its ignorant drivers, and its abusive poliec force stop giving cyclists a reason to rebell. I. E. build bike paths. Educate the public. The fact is bikers are the solution to L.A's commuting woes, and we are increasing in number every day. I pay taxes to fix roads so that giant cars and trucks can rip them up again. Push your lawmakers to extend biking infrastructure in Los Angeles and watch the problems speed away....

I've heard before (and read above) people talking about bicycle LANES in Malibu. Even s L.A. Sherriff pulled me over and told me to ride in the bike lane on PCH once. THERE ARE NO BIKE LANES IN MALIBU! There is a shoulder, but NO BIKE LANE! That means that cars may be parked in it, or it dissapears here and there, which means cyclists HAVE to ride in the lane.
Personally, I make sure to move into the lane well before the shoulder dissapears/is blocked, and tell other cyclists to do so. Many cyclists feel intimidated and so stay on the shouler/very far right of the road until the last second, which is much more dangerous. Cyclists neet to convey their intentions to drivers coming from behind.

I ride about 150 miles a week and have had almost no problems with cars. The few times there has been a problem has been due to the driver not seeing me. There are some mountain roads that are simply too narrow and congested to safely navigate and I avoid them. Mandeville Cyn Rd is a fun, but dangerous route and is made more so by the Type-A residents and riders that do daily battle there.

I think we need a slightly different vehicle code for cyclists. Recognizing some of the differences and enforcing commonalities, like red lights, might go some way to easing tensions. Rolling stops should be allowed for cyclists, perhaps at a maximum of 5mph, and the ability to ride against one-way streets, again with a speed limit and no right of way, a requirement for a bell or horn, that sort of thing.

Having lived in Amsterdam for two years, I find this conversation amazing. Without a commitment from the city to development safe paths for cyclists to bike, this issue will never be resolved. We need bike lanes whether separate or at the side of the roadway on most streets, and an education campaign for both cyclists and motorists to learn or relearn traffic laws regarding cyclists.

It's faster and easier to get around the city in A'dam than it is to drive a car. Motorists respect cyclists (because most peolpe are both), and cyclists obey the traffic laws. That said, cyclists are often given the right of way over motorists. And one cannot drive in Amsterdam without constantly looking in the rear view mirror to assess what the cyclists are going to do -- especially when turning right.

I can tell when I encounter a cyclist in LA in that same situation that they have fear I will turn right without heed. But I was well trained in the 2 years I lived in A'dam and always wait to turn until they've passed me.

Yes, I resent a cyclist riding in the middle of a lane in front of me at 20 MPH when I'm trying to get to work, but I also know that if (s)he tried to cycle between the lane and the curb (s)he'd be at serious risk. It's not the cyclist's fault, it's not my fault. The city needs a green committment to making cycling in LA fun and safe.

I'm British and used to cycle everywhere in London before moving to LA. So I tried the same when I got here - after all, LA is SUNNY all the time, unlike the UK, and pretty flat. What I found, however, is that drivers here simply do not know how to handle bicycles on roads. When I was learning to drive as a teenager, my dad repeatedly told me - 'when you pass a bicyclist, you must always give them enough space so if they fall off, you won't hit them", which makes perfect sense - you pull out to pass the cyclist and give them a safety zone. But cars here don't. They zoom by at 40 mph so you almost feel the metal - or at least the force of the vehicle, enough to make you wobble. I've lost count of the number of times I've been reduced to a shaky, tearful wreck by being passed like that. Add in the fact so many motorists here are in ridiculously giant tank-like cars and either on the phone or texting and it makes cycling anywhere seem like a suicide mission. I don't ride my bike any more, except on cycle paths or at the beach.

Handicap ramps have made sidewalks de facto bike lanes. I don't blame bike riders for wanting to get off the street, but they are endangering pedestrians and the wheelchair-bound citizens those ramps were meant to assist. It's still against the law to ride a bike on the sidewalk, isn't it? Why is there no enforcement?

Cyclists often seem to forget that drivers don't have the same perception of available space that they do. I recently had the experience of a cyclist getting angry with me and hitting the back of my car with his hand screaming "GO!" because I had to slow down to inch between a parked car and a truck illegally parked across from it. This was a narrow, one-land residential street!. I could not see how much room I had to get through and was taking my time in order not to hit anything. The cyclist seemed enraged that I was slowing him down and ruining his workout. When I asked him what his problem was? He leaned into my window and screamed that I was a bad driver. Excuse me? I slow down when the traffic (cars OR bikes) slows down in front of me. Aren't cyclists supposed to do the same?

It astounds me at the anger I hear from all the drivers. Is it really that hard for drivers to have a little patience and share the road with bicycylists? Can't we all just get along...

As a professional cyclist and frequent commuter from Altadena to Glendale, the response i hear most often from drivers after nearly being run over is, "ohh sorry, i didn't see you". While i have to cool my temper remember that these people don't INTENTIONALLY run me off the road, ignorance is still no excuse for endangering the lives of fellow road users. Drivers need to be more aware of their surroundings and have the patience to wait that extra 10 seconds while a cyclist passes. The consequences of hitting a cyclist are far more dire than bumping into a car's fender - lives, not plastic parts, are at risk.

wow. usually kpcc listeners call in with thoughtful, intelligent comments. this topic invited mostly complaints and arguments. hmmm... why hasn't it occurred to everyone that this is actually good? look at what percentage of people use bicycles as their main method of transportation. it's a pretty small minority. kudos to you for having the guts! not only are they significantly outnumbered and outsized on the road, they're a teeny tiny political force, as well. how else but through extensive conflict and debate will city planners, law enforcement, etc., start putting bike lanes in more parts of the city? if i was more fit, and if ity wasn't so dangerous, i'd ride a bike! and if this is the position lots of us hold, maybe extensive bike lanes would remove the danger barrier & then more of us would be getting more fit *while* making a substantial contribution to the city's reduction of carbon emissions? yeah, some bicyclists have attitude. but so do drivers, and they're polluting with attitude instead of doing good with attitude. i'll take an angry bicycling population over an angry driving population any day. and for the record, i'm a fairly neutral point of view. i ride a motorbike which gets 80 mpg, and i can pass bicyclists without causing anyone alarm.

There is no place in the CA Vehicle Code that states cyclists must ride single file. Furthermore, everyone keeps saying, "why don't they move out of the way when I'm trying to pass them?" Move out of the way to where? You want us to swerve off the road because you want to pass? You want us to pull into the door zone and stop so you can pass? That's ridiculous. A slow moving vehicle would not do this nor would you expect it to. Treat cyclists like any other slow moving traffic and wait until you have the ability to pass. We have the full right to the lane; a cyclist giving you room to pass in the lane is a courtesy not your right.

I try to be extremely courteous on the road as well as vigilant of my own safety. And yes, there are cyclists who blatantly ignore traffic laws and put themselves and others at risk. But HELLO, there are just as many motorists who do the same and worse every day: worse because they've got 4000lbs of steel behind them. Could we all stop trying to blame each other and realize that the solution is tolerance, courtesy, and maybe we all drive a little slower?

Share the road and respect everyone's right to choose what kind of transportation is right for them, be it bike, car, motorcycle, bus, or foot.

I'm a lifelong cyclist. I think I've owned a bike for all but a few months since I was 4 and got my first two-wheeler. When I was younger I sometimes biked 30 miles round trip (uphill in the mornings) to work. I own two bikes, a road bike and a mountain bike.

I go through this to establish that I am an enthusiastic bicyclist.

There's no question that there are buckets of terrible car drivers out there. (I'm missing two inches from one leg because of one who didn't see me right in front of her on my old motorcycle.)

But every time I take one of my bicycles out on the trails or on the streets, I am horrified by some of the incompetent, negligent, and, yes, arrogant fellow bicyclists that I come across. Sometimes -- distressingly frequently -- you get all three of those qualities wrapped up in one package.

Mind you, I'm a fast, no-nonsense rider. I do not suffer foolishness or reckless behavior gladly. But I also *follow the traffic laws* -- something that I would estimate only about 5 to 10 percent of my fellow bicyclists who I observe do. Is it a drag to stop at a stop sign or a traffic signal when no cars seem to be around? Sure. I pick my routes in order to minimize that sort of thing. But the laws are there for *everyone's* safety. With the privilege of getting out in traffic -- I live only a few blocks from the Sharrows in Belmont Sore so sometimes that's *really* out there in traffic -- comes the very serious responsibility to follow the traffic laws that *should* rule them.

I want to see a lot more bicyclists.

But a whole lot less incompetent, negligent, or outright reckless ones.

I used to ride my bike 10 miles to work five days a week and seldom had problems with cars. I wore a bright orange reflective vest to be seen and had a flashing light on even during the day.

The only problem I have with cyclists as a rider or motorist is those who refuse to ride single file in groups. I used to hate having to swing out wide to pass them on my bike and I hate it in my car. These riders are more concerned with their conversation than their safety or that of others.

Save the conversations for when the ride is over. When you go to ride, then ride.

Know the law-

While it is true that cyclists are obligated to ride to the right side of the road, a lesser known law is that bicycles are entitled to a full lane just as any automobile is.

Myself a cyclist, I agree that too many cyclists do not respect the law where it comes to stop signs and red lights. But I would also suggest that too many motorists and cyclists do not understand that bicycles have equal rights to the road, which also means they are equally obligated to road laws.

Where riding on sidewalks is concerned, that presents its own hazards, which a non cyclist doesn't understand. The transition from sidewalk to crossing streets is dangerous, as the cyclist is at risk of being unseen by drivers.

As for so called 'buke paths', there haven't been any I've seen which are designed by cyclists- that's obvious by the hazards designed into them.

One other point I'd like to include is that as a cyclist, we are always wary of broken glass (mostly beer bottles discarded by drivers or automobile occupants) which tends to rest toward the right of the road. In order to avoid flats and especially accidents resulting from flats, cyclists will take up as much lane as possible where automobile tires kick the broken glass off the road. The so called 'bottle bill' which would have reduced this problem was soundly defeated some years ago.

ThanX,

Allen Low
Los Angeles

To me, there are two important issues concurrently being discussed- each one deserving of its own show. First, how are we going to promote and welcome people who use bikes instead of cars to get around our city? Second, how can we provide serious cyclists with safe places to train while, at the same time, keeping roads available to those who need to use them to get from "a" to "b."? As a driver, I am much more sympathetic and patient with someone who is clearly riding for transportation than I am for someone who is clearly riding for sport. As one caller said, mulholland is not the tour de France.

Bike lanes aren't the end all solution to the issue between bikes and cars in Los Angeles. Drivers seem to think that if they can put us 'somewhere we belong' that we aren't going to ride on the streets anymore. I am happy to ride in a well-placed bike lane (some of them aren't) if it gets me where I'm going, but I'm not going to find another mode of transportation to go somewhere if there isn't a bike lane or path.

Cyclists break laws just like drivers break laws. Every time I get on my bike I have some sort of near-miss or run-in with a car. More often than not the driver is on the phone, curling eyelashes, and once I even saw some guy shaving his face. It doesn't ruin my ride, and I don't have to break any windows to get over it and at most I try to find the driver and let them know they just missed running me over. Usually they don't even have any idea I was there OR they tell me to 'get the f*@k on the sidewalk where I belong.'

Drivers need to accept that sometimes it just isn't safe for us to ride all the way to the right on a road. Sometimes the streets are so torn up the only place you can roll along without breaking a wheel is in the middle of the lane. Sometimes the street parking pushes you out farther in the lane than cars see as necessary. Sorry, but I've had a car door stop my bike abruptly, and I don't want it to happen again.

LA has been coming to this breaking point. Everyone is mad at everyone else, and no one takes any responsibility for it. This city is a lot of rushing and no one cares to pay attention to anything but their own incredibly important needs. Everyone needs to take a deep breath and go for a ride.

So many people are missing the point. Chris Thompson is being punished for attacking other human beings. He used a car as a weapon. The problem here is that many other people behave less severely in similar situations. However, their actions are still capable of great harm to others. If you see a pedestrian step out into a cross-walk, you stop. If you don't, you could kill that person. If you are driving and approach a cyclist on the road, you should reduce your speed to be sure that you proceed safely. That person on the bike, is just like you and they deserve your respect and their safety. If you do this, you will be calmer and happier, and you will still be on time for life. Unlike Chris Thompson who chose to act agressively. He is going to jail.

To add to the post about biking in Europe, particularly Amsterdam, it's worth noting that in some European countries, the motorist is always considered at fault when he/she hits a cyclist or pedestrian. Why? Because the motorist is the one driving a large heavy vehicle that can kill someone. Driving is a privilege and responsibility. For years, our cities have been designed purely for cars. That's slowly changing and part of what we're experiencing is growing pains from that transition. We need improved infrastructure that accomodates all modes of transportation, including bicycling.

Cyclists have been called out for ignoring the rules of the road and it's true for many, but not all cyclists. The same can be said for motorists. We can all think of instances when another driver did something illegal or dangerous. Hello, texting or talking on your hand-held cell phone? There's plenty of bad behavior to go around. Cyclists and motorists should follow the rules of the road and both groups need to learn them better.

What the hell happened to society that a cars need to be able to go 160mph, but drivers complain more about not being able to hit 40mph. It is the cyclist fault drivers usually are bumper to bumper? Stuck in traffic, always in a hurry, never enjoying that scenic route the car company told them came standard with the purchase.

If I paid all that money a month for a meaningless item, I would be just as angry. It's like looking at your partners lingerie that hasnt been worn (or has it)... you get the point.

It just makes for a lot of tension

Obviously this issue needs a complete show to truly explore this very contentious but interesting issue. I do hope a dialogue can be opened between bicyclists and motorists, as well as among the residents of Los Angeles as a whole.
Bicycling can extend your life, but it seems here in Los Angeles is can be a dangerous exercise. Please cover this issue at greater length for the benefit of the community. Thanks.

I ride my bike and occasionally drive. My observations regarding this issue is that the drivers need to start learning the California Vehicle Code.

CVC 21200 states that bicycle riders have all the rights and responsibilities of a driver.
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc21200.htm

CVC 21202 states that bicycle rider can take the lane under certain circumstances,
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc21202.htm

There's no specific code that states that riders can not ride two abreast. Same as for motorcyclists. So bicyclists can ride two abreast on the road.

When drivers learn this part of the vehicle code, some of the problems will disappear.

Also a couple of things I see all drivers doing, that puts everyone in danger, is using the cell phone, and going over the speed limit. This is far worst than a bicyclist running a stop sign at an intersection that is clear.

I agree with many of the statements calling for patience and responsibility from both motorists and cyclists.

However, before making sweeping statements about "all these cyclists that don't follow the traffic laws," we need to understand what exactly those rules are. I'm sure there are just as many motorists that break traffic laws, and perhaps even more than bicyclists. So let's not be so quick to point fingers.

California Vehicle Code 21202 is one of the most confusing and easily misunderstood sections. Many motorists and cyclists, fail to realize that single file riding is NOT explicitly required in California or Los Angeles. Moreover, riding two or three abreast is also NOT explicitly prohibited.

There are actually many circumstances when a bicyclist is allowed full use of the lane and not required to ride as far to the right as "practicable."

Just the choice of the word "practicable" should be an indication that it's a subjective determination of safety based on the perspective of the bicyclist, and not based on the level of inconvenience to the motorist.

If you're all ready riding at the speed of traffic or at the speed limit, there's no need to ride to the far right. Debris, obstructions, opening doors from parked cars, cars exiting from driveways, lanes that are NOT wide enough to be shared by car and bike at the same time - are all examples of when it's not "practicable" to ride to the right.

Without the infrastructure to provide the appropriate level of space for both motorists and bicyclists, everyone is going to have to calm down and learn to share the road.

Someone who called in mentioned that there should be training courses for cyclists. Well, anyone who gets a class M license (scooters, motorcycles, etc.) does have to pass an extra written and riding test, and if you extended this to bicycles, I don't think drivers would like it. Here's what they tell you:

In the top 3 ways that 2-wheeled vehicles collide with 4(+)-wheeled vehicles is that traffic from a side street pulls out in front of the bike to see around the parked cars. Therefore, riding on the right-hand side is to be avoided whenever possible.

Also, because riding off to one side of the lane gives cars the impression they can safely pass you even when they cannot. So, it is recommended to ride near the middle of the lane, in a position that will not encourage ars to pass you unless they have a full lane to pass you, because the only way to safely pass a 2-wheeled motorist is to pass with as much room as you'd give a car.

They also teach you that to be a defensive motorcyclist, you should pay close attention to the traffic behind you. Getting rear-ended in a car might cause neck pain, but it can easily kill someone on a motorcycle, even at speeds that seem slow to the person driving the car. So, what do we do? You come to a very slow stop (not slamming on the brakes at the last moment like so many cars do), and you keep the bike in gear, descending through the gears as your speed decreases. Then, if some oblivious car is about to rear-end you, you can let off the clutch & gun it, because you've left some wiggle room in front of you and you're already in gear. Sometimes this has caused me to zip forward into an intersection, because the car behind me wants to run the yellow, and if I don't move, I'm instead trusting their ability to suddenly brake. Risk my life, or dart into an as-yet unobstructed intersection? Well, until you're faced with the need to make an immediate decision for your safety, don't think you wouldn't choose the same as me. This can't account for all of the red light running that people on bicycles do, but I will bet you it's a very similar motivation in many cases.

Come on and cut them a break. You wish you were that daring, and that environmentally conscious, too, don't you? They're not only pioneers of sustainable living; like true revolutionaries, they risk their lives every day for the cause! The sight of people on bicycles should cause you discomfort because you're guilty of not doing the same. And if that doesn't do it, maybe the unfortunate fact that it's inconvenient for you to share the road should remind you why you should support the infrastructure improvements that bicyclists have always been the strongest proponents of. They don't like risking their lives OR being resented. Just remember that and everybody stop being so self-centered that you take it out on them! Voice your complaints to city officials, on behalf of these folks, and you're helping both them AND yourself.

when cyclists dis obey traffic laws such as running stop signs, it is usually in an attempt to not stop and waste momentum but also to get out of the way of vehicles so that they don't have to wait longer for the cyclist to regain momentum and pass. but if there is a car already at a stop sign, every cyclist should stop and allow to pass.

I was so deeply offended by today's show. First of all LARRY you should have set the stage for CVC bicycle law by stating the law in full. Then you should have worked to clarify what the jury found that Dr. Thompson actually did. The cyclists who were hit were riding two abreast because they were legally allowed to under these conditions.

THE SPEED LIMIT IS 30MPH on Mandeville Cyn Rd.
The cyclists according to their highly accurate archived gps training equipment's data showed that the cyclists were riding at 29mph.

THE DOCTOR broke the law by SPEEDING to get ahead of the cyclists and then he broke the law by swerving over and slamming on his brakes right in front of the cyclists who were already travelling at the speed limit of 30 MPH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not only that, it was proven that the doctor behaved this same way in march 08 and in january 08. his customized plates were identified in 3 separate incidents.

WE SHOULD ALL BE SO LUCKY THAT OUR BIGGEST PROBLEM IN LIFE IS THAT SOME CYCLISTS USE THE ROAD IN FRONT OF YOUR MANSION IN BEVERLY HILLS!!!!!!!!

This doctor lost his mind and crossed a HUGE line. I'm ELATED that he was brought to justice because 99.9% of road rage incidents go unchecked by the police or the DMV. FINALLY, we get a proper conviction. I'm sorry to hear that it took the near death of some human beings to get this issue into the public conversation.

In my view, one of the biggest problems is that many drivers/people are selfish. When one drives like an idiot, they are essentially stating - "your safety does not matter to me and your life is not worth as much as mine." Driver and bike rider education could help the situation. A higher level of civility among both groups would go a long way as well.

I'm confused, if cyclists don't run stop signs cars will get through the stop sign sooner? Also, the doctor was going downhill when he slammed the brakes on those cyclists. I guarantee you the cyclists were going at least the speed limit - in which case I have to ask: does it matter if it's 2 cyclists riding abreast, or a car in front of you going the speed limit or above? You'd have to wait for the car if you wanted to speed, why is waiting for the cyclists any different.

The california pamphlet of bicycle road safety encourages cyclists to take more of the roadway when it's narrow and when traveling at the same speed as car speed limits to discourage cars from passing dangerously close to you.

Unfortunately, Larry has expressed the same slant on this issue in previous shows about cyclists vs. cars. It would be nice to have an on-air advocate of clean transportation and safety for cyclists. ABC did some nice coverage of the Rose Bowl ride last year. We need more of that.

Bike lanes with parked cars in them are deadly. Some people should actually get on a bike sometime and try riding around the city.

HMMMMMMMMM......................

The announcer on the audio bit at the top of the page said there's minimum speed limits on the roads in LA. REALLY? What are those minimums? There must be some municipal code that governs this right? What is that code? Is it Cal vehicle code? What might that code be? The answer is that there isn't any minimum vehicle speed code. The closest you'll find to some code is really vague code,
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc22400.htm

You'll find some code to regulating slow moving vehicles, but that is regulating golf carts,
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/vc/tocd11c1a5-2.htm

Feel free to correct me if there's some minimum speed going down Wilshire for example. Remember, Wilshire has three lanes, so even a bicyclist going 5 mph would not be impeding cars.

There is a pack of about 60 cyclist who ride on the Bolsa Chica State Beach service road each weekend. The road is one lane in each direction and this wannabe Peloton ride 10 abreast covering both lanes and stopping all vehicle traffic. If you honk, they scream obscenties and kick your car. There is a bike lane on PCH but they insist on riding on the State Beach road even though it ends in 2 miles and they have to merge onto PCH anyway. I'm a middle aged longboarder and my brawling days are over but I would love to see one of these arrogant lycra clad, Oakley wearing clowns mouth off to a 25 year old ripped up aggro HB surf Nazi. I'll put my money on my fellow dawn patroller versus the balding accountant.

Larry you brought on a lot of interesting voices but you really failed to contextualize the comments within the law.

As a journalist it is your responsibility to know the facts in this conversation.
You are usually right on top of the subjects you cover and I am a little surprised you dropped the ball on this.

The law is very clear and very simple.

In California, Bicycles are allowed on every road except for freeways where there alternative roads that bicyclists can take.

CVC 21200 "Every person riding a bicycle upon a highway has all the rights and is subject to all the provisions applicable to the driver of a vehicle ... " (dmv.gov)

Citizens are allowed to occupy the road with a vehicle. One vehicle doesn't automatically get to displace another because it is bigger or faster.

The road is more dangerous when users are unclear of the law.
If anything, today's show made a very simple law, less clear to most listeners.
I think you owe us a revisitation of this topic.

I am a cyclist. I think everyone agrees that understanding and consideration will be the only true resolution to the issue. Not every road can be made totally bike safe.
Some folks will not ever get it. If a cyclist does not like the way someone is driving then slow down for 30 seconds or a minute and that car WILL BE GONE. We each see this everyday in our cars when someone is driving their car poorly. We don't challenge them we just get away from them. I know it messes with a cyclist's training but seriously! Drivers need to understand that their car will kill. Handle it with safety even if some immature bicycle rider is being rude. You have a car (weapon) you are in control of and you cannot shoot the rider just because they anger you. Again, there are drivers that are just as bad or worse than the cyclists and you yield to them or slow down or go around safely.
I road from SLO to HB once and had the blessing of a trucker protecting my cousin and I with his vehicle. The only road (101) to get through an area was being worked on. He slowed down and allowed my cousin and I to ride in front of him because there was NO WHERE for us to go. Bless his compassion and common sense.
Cyclists, please treat the driver like it could be your favorite aunt and drivers, please treat that cyclist like your favorite child or uncle.

LARRY

You owe us another show. You owe it to Los Angeles to clear this issue up rather than cloud it like you have.

As an avid road and mountain cyclist for more than 15 years, I strongly believe that my attitude has a tremendous influence on my experience with motorists. Courtesy and civility have been my best defenses against negative encounters with both.

I have seen too many cyclists who do not meet their end of the "Share the Road" bargain. This behavior, of course, never justifies a violent act against the perpetrator, but it sure doesn't do anything to prevent such occurrences.

When I am on the road as a cyclist, automobile driver or pedestrian, I am mindful of everyone else. If someone behind me is obviously in a hurry, then I move out of the way. If I'm blocking the right turn lane, I'll move up to let the vehicle behind me make the turn.

If everyone extended the same courtesies to each other, road rage would not be an issue for motorists or cyclists.

I am a cyclist. I ride, take the bus, or drive depending on where I have to go and what time of day it is. I ride a bike for enjoyment. I drive a car or take the bus because I have to get somewhere. I heard many comments about what car drivers thought bicycle laws should be. I heard few rules and comments from riders. Here are 11 suggestions in two posts,

1. As a cyclist, I ride a doors length away from parked cars. I watch for people in their car who may open their door on me. This is so common that cyclist have a verb for it. We call it getting doored. I also watch for drivers who stop to let passengers off but do not pull right to the curb. You could get doored on the passenger side as you are riding between cars.

2. Drivers need to give a bike rider a doors length of room when passing, especially around parked cars. If you have to, move into the next lane to pass. Many times as I am riding, drivers will cut back into the lane forcing me to slow down or swerve inward not to be squeezed. This is common as well. We cyclists call it getting pinched. MTA bus driver do this often enough that I am wary of them too.

3. As a cyclist, I do not ride all the way up to the front at every stop light. Instead, I will wait my turn in line so that drivers do not have to keep passing me. I do not mind this as a driver, but I am aware other drivers who do not ride bikes mind this.

4. As a cyclist, there are some streets and or times that we should not ride. I live in the downtown area,so I try not to ride during the commuting hours mornings 7AM-10AM and evenings 3PM-7PM. There is just too much traffic. I stay off narrow streets such as Fountain and Santa Monica blvd in West Hollywood and streets with discourteous drivers such as Beverly blvd from the Beverly center to La Brea blvd. These streets are not bike friendly. So ride at your own risk. Surprisingly, I have found drivers on 3rd St in the same area, just one block up from Beverly blvd, to be much more bike friendly.
In the 80's, I used to live in the valley and work in Santa Monica. So I biked Sepulveda blvd over the hill around 8AM and finally switched to Beverly Glen, a steeper climb, because I got tired of being narrowly missed by drivers trying to get on the 405 frwy.

5. As a cyclists, when I have to change a flat, I get up on the side walk. I do not block a driveway. I remember a cyclists being hit and killed as he was fixing a flat on a street where a parked car would be. This happened in Calabasas, a planned community where streets are wider, so I believe it was intentional.

I hope that these suggestions will make sense to some if not all of you. I believe that these are all valid points. To be continued in second post.

I am a cyclist. I ride, take the bus, or drive depending on where I have to go and what time of day it is. This is the second of two posts.

6. As a cyclist, I as wary of cars making right turns into driveways. It has been my experience that some drivers speed up to make their right turn into a driveway in front of you, cutting you off, making you slow down and in some cases stop to avoid being hit. There is no verb for this yet. This happens at intersections too. Also watch for drivers making left turns at intersections. As a cyclist, you are one that will be injured or maimed.

7. As a cyclists, I watch my back as I am riding. I have been side swiped twice. The first time it happened, I regained conscience as the paramedics were asking me if I knew my name and what day it was. I thought they were yelling at me. I was taken to the hospital for the treatment of a concussion. I was not wearing a helmet yet. Now I wear a helmet and have a bike mirror.
The second time I was hit, it was as I pulled away from a stop light once it had turned green. I was hit by the driver waiting at the stop light right next to me. Now I am wary of drivers no matter where I am.

8. Cyclist, invest in a helmet to protect your head. And if your helmet is more than 2 years old, it is time to replace it. Helmets are made of Styrofoam and are designed to crush on impact. They deteriorate over time.

9. In discussions with friends and coworkers who maintain that as a bike rider, I should ride on the sidewalk because a bike is a toy. I refer them to the California DMV Handbook on "Right of Way" when entering traffic or making turns at intersections. This covers motor vehicles, bike riders and pedestrians. It also states that driving is a privilege, not a right as some of us may think. I suggest that everyone with a license read it to refresh their memory. It just might make some of us safer more courteous drivers. Per the DMV Handbook, we all share the road; not one of us owns the it. This is a popular misconception we tend to believe as soon as we get in our cars.

10. When I have been cut off by a motorist, I try not to argue with them or finger them. The resultant argument can ruin the whole ride for me as I will be angry the entire time. Unless it is particularly violent, I try to let it go. Why be angry for the rest of the day?

11. Any of us that have had to attend traffic school usually have to hear a talk on giving ourselves enough time to make our commute instead of running late and getting those Photo Red Light tickets. In addition, a little courtesy goes a long way. Try it.
And anyone of us who has tried to multi task, ie read and watch TV, or eat, read a map, talk and text on a cell phone while driving must have already come to the conclusion that we can only do two things marginally well. And it only adds to our anxiety and frustration when we try to do other things while driving.

Larry, please don't call the Dr. Thompson incident an accident. He did what he did on purpose with intent to harm.

Also, I don't really think there is a problem, overall. Yes, there are a few loud blowhards who have problems with cyclists. However, the vast majority of encounters on the road are peaceful and uneventful. The blowhards will extrapolate bad behavior they see and apply it to all cyclists.

In my experience the vast majority of cyclists are motivated to stay safe because of their vulnerability. They may not always obey every letter of the law, but neither do drivers. The big difference is that a cyclist behaving badly isn't nearly as dangerous to other road users.

@OCIrish: We are very impressed that you are a tough guy on an Internet forum. Sounds like you really want some conflict.

I have ridden over 85,000 miles in my adult life and commuted 61 mile round trip to work and back on summer days in L.A. I obeyed every traffic law and have been courteous and polite, mainly because of my survival instinct. A 200 lbs rider + bike is no match for a 4000 lbs vehicle.
That said, I have had many aggressive moves against me on Mandeville canyon, including a deliberate head-on near miss in 2003. In July of 2003 I was riding down Mandeville towards Sunset blvd when a white Toyota Camery, driving north on the opposite lane, swerved into my lane and came directly head-on.
I braked hard and the Toyota came to a stop a couple of feet from me. The driver of the Toyota rolled the window down and yelled "This will teach you a lesson you piss ant" and then he sped away. I turned around and tried to catch up, but the car was long gone. I ran into another cyclist coming south who told me the exact same thing had happened to him 30 seconds before. Together we rode up the canyon until we spotted the Toyota and the same driver leaving the car and entering a house. I took the license number, the house address and the email of the other cyclist. He didn't want to go to the police for whatever reason. I did and filed a report with the detectives at the West L.A. division. I still have the yellow copy of the report.
After a month, I followed up with the detectives. They told me that the owner of the Toyota was a woman who denied having given his car to a many in his 40's, basically denied the whole thing. I was also told that in the absence of objective witness (the other cyclist who wouldn't file a report), it was my word against that other person, assuming they even found him.
That person was not Dr. Thompson (he was much younger), but his action of deliberately trying to create a head-on collision with a cyclist (attempted murder) shows that some of the residents of Mandevillle canyon have taken the dangerous action of disciplining all cyclists because a few have broken the law.
I hope Thompson's conviction gives them a sobering lesson that no matter what laws the cyclists break, the drivers should not hurt the cyclists.

The following are the most general of State rules regarding bicyclists that are not followed or even known by many bicyclists.
--
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/hdbk/shr_slow_veh.htm#bike
Bicyclists:
are lawfully permitted to ride on certain sections of freeways. Be careful when approaching or passing a bicyclist on a freeway.

must ride in the same direction as other traffic, not against it.

must ride in a straight line as near to the right curb or edge of the roadway as practical—not on the sidewalk.

*must ride single file on a busy or narrow street.

must make left and right turns in the same way that drivers do, using the same turn lanes.

must signal all their intentions to motorists and cyclists near them.

may legally move left to turn left, to pass a parked or moving vehicle, another bicycle, an animal, or to make a turn, avoid debris, or other hazards.

may choose to ride near the left curb or edge of a one-way street.

may use a left turn lane. If the bicyclist is traveling straight ahead,

he or she should use a through traffic lane rather than ride next to the curb and block traffic making right turns.

are lawfully permitted to ride on certain sections of freeways, in some rural areas where there is no alternate route. Be careful when approaching or passing a bicyclist on a freeway.
--
*failing to follow this rule is the easiest way to anger drivers, but I think it is also indicative of the fact that yielding to faster traffic on the left is simply not respected in this State's driving culture, meanwhile in many other states and nations, there are penalties for drivers who fail to move right so that faster traffic can pass on the left. it is simply not a driver's job to attempt to prevent another driver's speeding by not yielding, and bicyclists should follow their own motto about sharing the road by doing just that for obviously faster and larger vehicles.

Please note that the DMV's handbook does not include many regulations that are imposed by local governments. Some of these rules include:
having operational hand brake(s)***, dismounting the bicycle in certain public areas if allowed to have the bike at all, helmets, lights, bell, etc.

*** If you ride fixed gear and prefer to brake on your own, expect a fix it ticket from LAPD

it's totally ridiculous for anyone to say that certain roads, because they're narrow and winding, should be off limits to bikes. off limits to enormous vehicles, perhaps. but if you're riding a bicycle, the smaller streets with lower speed limits are a pretty sensible choice.

one person earlier said that a person doesn't expect to come around a curve at 25 and all of a sudden be behind a person on a bicycle going 5mph. you know, it really doesn't matter how fast you think you're entitled to drive. if you are coming around a curve and can't see what lies on the road ahead, you need to be going slowly enough to stop at a moment's notice. any number of situations could occur around the bend that aren't expected: a slow or stalled car, wildlife or debris in the road, a person crossing the street or walking their dog, etc.

the thing is that bicycles aren't even the ones being put in the most danger by people driving too fast on curvy canyon roads. i fear for my safety every time i'm in a CAR on these roads because people also constantly come around the bend not expecting another CAR to be in the opposing lane, and they take curves without even attempting to stay on their side of the road, and moving far too quickly. call me a granny driver, but i feel that i must drive exceptionally slowly around the curve because i'm fully expecting an oncoming car to be partially obstructing my lane.

i don't even ride a bicycle, and i harbor resentment toward these drivers who assume that curvy roads are meant for re-enacting scenes from car commercials (minus the part where you stay in your own lane, of course), so as a car driver who wants to see the behavior of other drivers change, i secretly cheer on the bicycles for pissing off all those type-A personalities who dominate the roads and bully everyone else on the roads and highways. sometimes you want to stick it to them, but you know it's just not safe, and totally immature, and not worth it.

but let's face it. sometimes we're all a little immature--just look at all the anger pouring out in these comments! at least i'm cheering on the underdog, the carbon-neutral traveler, in my version of immaturity. it's got to be better than being a dangerous and intimidating force on the roads! =)

I must correct fireman342. He's on the right track; however, not only is there not a law forbidding motorcycles from riding two abreast, it's actually explicitly LEGAL for motorcycles. It's also legal for a car and motorcycle to share a lane (although it isn't very practical or safe), but I think that it's necessary for it to be legal so that "splitting lanes" will also be legal. I'm not saying this extends to bicycles, because I don't know. But I thought I'd correct that bit about the motorcycles.

(And for those of you who don't know, motorcycles don't have built-in cooling systems, which means they'll overheat if they sit in traffic instead of passing. All the cooling comes from the wind while moving forward. Not sure that's the reason for the legality of lane splitting, but I think it's a reasonable guess.)

From my viepoint when cycling, when a bicyclist is on the right side of the lane, it is a courtesy to the motorist to yield the rest lane to them. It puts the cyclists in a dangerous position being near a curb, or parked cars. Having been hit by an opening car door on my bike I will now move over into the first lane of the road when passing occupied parked cars. I will signal with my arm and begin moving over as far in advance as I can. That lane is now mine, and I should be respected and given space just like any other car or motorcycle. once I feel safe I will move over and yield that lane back to the cars.

I hate seeing other bicyclists disregarding road rules because it makes motorists disrespect and dislike us as a group. However I also get irritated when drivers essentially shut down, or start making up their own rules because they don't know how to behave and handle their car when I am around them on my bike. Coming to a stop sign is dangerous enough, but when a motorists doesn't take their right of way, and is motioning for the cyclists to go first it is very dangerous, because other drivers might not realize that the person with the right of way is yielding it to someone else.

So, yes, it is very important for drivers of any vehicle to pay attention to driving whatever vehicle they are driving and be aware of all other vehicles around them.

Also I must mention the overall Ventura is a nice city to ride a bike in. There are many bike paths to facilitate movement around the city and in most cases the drivers and cyclists are respectful.

The way this report was framed brings out the douche bags amongst us who assume that everyone on a bike is some sports fiend putting in their miles.

I wonder, do I even figure into their assertions about cyclists when I'm shopping on my bike? Riding my daughter to see her mom at lunch time on my days off, or to the park, or out to the bank on an errand?

You clowns have turned someone using a bicycle into some bizarre stereotype of a thin, male, riding an expensive bike in tight clothes - I live and work around cyclists all day long, and those guys are very few and far between in the circles I ride in.

This whole "those bike riders are selfish/reckless/etc." line is indicative of a deep an abiding ignorance in the factual state of affairs in our streets. Wake up - this is not about sport cycling, but about the basic rules of civil life in the city.

You may sit in your little metal shell pretending that you're an independent little cog, doing your duty as a consumer - but you're a belching prick to those that have to put up with the infrastructure and planning associated with the device you are paid (collectively through state subsidies) to use.

Shame on KPCC for this "road wars" narrative.

Re: DMV handbook

"must ride in a straight line as near to the right curb or edge of the roadway as practical—not on the sidewalk.

*must ride single file on a busy or narrow street."

@David

You know, I'm surprised that the DMV would publish that in their handbook. In fact, they are incorrect. First, the DMV handbook is not California law and you can not cite it as legal authority for anything. Is it evidence of what the DMV suggests for proper operation of vehicles, absolutely, but it is not the law. The Cal. Vehicle Code is the law.

Second, I challenge you to direct me to the section of the Cal. Vehicle Code that says: "must ride in a straight line" or "must ride single file on a busy or narrow street." I can't seem to find it. Seriously.

CVC 21202(a)(3) references CVC 21656, which only applies to two lane highways, not your typical L.A. streets that often have two lanes or more in each direction. Moreover, 21656 does not say anything about bicycles riding single file.

CVC 22400(a) - Minimum speed law is often referenced in these kinds of debates, but even that section has an exception.."unless the reduced speed is necessary for safe operation, because of a grade, or in compliance with law." Again, nothing about riding single file.

So, we're back to the safety issue. If it is not safe to ride to the far right, a bicycle is allowed to use the full lane according to 21202.

I'm writing a letter to the DMV to get those two lines removed or changed to appropriately reflect the law. This is exactly why motorists are confused and upset and feel inconvenienced. Even the DMV doesn't understand the law.

I'm a cyclists a motorist and recently became a motorcyclist. I have had a drivers license for over 15 years. I have taken advanced urban cycling course by the LA Bike Coalition. I also took the MFS course for Motorcycling. I was completely surprised that Cyclists and Motorcyclists are killed in the same way.

They need to avoid the door zones.
They need to take the lane this avoids people turning right into them
The most dangerous place for both is the intersection. Most accidents happen when motorists turn in-front of the bike (either one)

We all know there are drivers that are out there that just don't follow the rules. The same can be said for cyclists and motorcyclists. so saying the blanket "they dont follow the rules of the road" is just silly. Alot of people dont obey the rules of the road. When is the last time you drove the speedlimit?

I think the problem is that drives don't know how to act around a bike. In addition there is a huge amount of cyclist that do erratic things also because they don't have the correct information. Either way, cycling has increased 47% since 2000 and its going up. Dallas Tx installed 50 miles of bike infrastructure this year, NYC has doubled that. Our city of Los Angles has put down less then 10 miles of bike infrastructure this year. We are behind on what we need. If you want more info about the current bike plan see http://labikeplan.com/. Make a good bike plan for LA not only helps cyclists, it helps motorists too.

I agree with many of those that posted comments about a better understanding of the laws of both cyclists and motorists. I too am a cyclist and I've seen the groups that I've ride with get out of hand which cause animosity from drivers. At the same time, many motorists believe that they own the road and conduct the same road rage that they do to other motorists towards cyclist.

It's all about education and making sure everyone knows what is allowed and not allowed.

In response to the last couple lines of David's comment:
"*** If you ride fixed gear and prefer to brake on your own, expect a fix it ticket from LAPD"

This is something of a misnomer, as the CVC mentions nothing about a specifically HAND operated brake, in fact all it mentions is "21201. (a) No person shall operate a bicycle on a roadway unless it is equipped with a brake which will enable the operator to make one braked wheel skid on dry, level, clean pavement. "

In the case of a fixed gear bicycle, that brake is a part of the drive-train, and it is quite easy to accomplish the aforementioned requirement of making one wheel skid on dry, level, clean pavement, the same goes for a coaster brake, you know the pedal back brake on 99% of all kids bikes and most single speed beach cruisers, in fact, of the 22 bicycles at my house (I have 8 myself and amongst my other 8 roommates we have many more, and I'm the house, and often the neighborhood's bike mechanic) the ones with the most functional brakes are all drive-train brakes. Rim brakes have a nasty habit of not working well in wet conditions; or on old bikes, of having stretched cables or bent or misaligned parts, wherein they do not work as well as they should, on a coaster brake or "brakeless" (as in hand brake less) fixed gears, if the real wheel is functioning the brakes work.

Again, even from cyclists, the vagueness of the laws provide not only incorrect positions on what is legal and what is not, but even assumptions about others who ride different kinds of bicycles. However there is some vagueness that is actually there intentionally to support the rights of cyclists, like the aforementioned use of the word "practicable" in the CVC regulation about lane positioning.

Cyclists are allowed full use of the lane when they need it, and this is up to the cyclist themselves to judge. In fact all the wording in CVC 21200 about being able to use the road with the rights and privileges of a vehicle and the wording in CVC 21202 which allows not only full use of the lane, but, if the cyclist is traveling at the same or greater speed than the traffic around them, any lane, as the regulations stating that a (slow moving) bicycle must stay to the right are worded exactly the same as the slow moving vehicle laws, which also use the word practicable.

*this comment split in two due to length

I ride approximately 15,000 miles a year in Los Angeles, I don't own a car, and have been subjected to almost every form of interaction with a car you can imagine, and probably even a few that you cannot. Most of the things cyclists do are done for a reason, sure there are idiot cyclists (a number far outweighed, even by proportion, to idiot drivers), but there is a large part of the infrastructure in this country, and this city, that is devoted specifically to cars, much of which doesn't make sense on a bicycle. Streets with stop signs at the bottom of steep hills in residential neighborhoods are one example. Bicycles need momentum to maintain their balance, and to keep moving, having to stop at the bottom of a steep climb in an area where there is little likely hood of cross traffic is seen by most cyclists as more of a hindrance than an item vital to their safety. This issue is a non issue to a motorist with many many horsepower at their disposal, and in a young city like Los Angeles, with good weather and primarily settled after the invention of the automobile, the roads don't often take issues like momentum, or steep grades into factor (in older cities steep grades were usually avoided due to the issues horse drawn vehicles have with such), in fact Los Angeles has 3 streets that are steeper than ANYTHING in San Francisco, only topped in steepness by 2 or three streets worldwide. Some of these streets are so absurd that local bicycle clubs stage hill climbing events on them (such as the annual Fargo St. Hill Climb put on by the LA Wheelmen every year, the climb is further exasperated by the lack of flat terrain at the bottom to gain momentum).

We live in an interesting time in an interesting city. Our Grandparents and their parents had to live through a time when streets went from being multi-modal (horse drawn vehicles, human powered vehicles and/or pedestrains, streetcars, and motor vehicles) to uni-modal (the primacy of the automobile), and now that the folly of our ways is becoming apparent, another change is happening, and it will not be easy. Look at the hurdles Mass Transit (like trains) faces in this city, and one can see the examples of the upcoming culture clash as it regards to vehicles.

OK, I didn't hear the show, and
I didn't read most of the above, but
I am a very long-time bicyclist, except
for the last year-or-so (I am slowly switching
to a bimodal format, to celebrate teh first
Intl. Bipolar Year -- which is really the Second
IGY ... let's make it for two whole years,
please !-)

yea, momentum is every thing; so,
one poster's assertion about a stop
at the bottom of a hill is somewhat humorous,
owing to "ballistics" and to the feelings
of those riders, going the other way.

til such time as the bicyclists become
rather more numerous, we will take our chances
with getting moving violations, so long
as our manuevers are quite defensively made
(another, or same poster as above,
mentioned turning right at a stop
without stiopping, then making a U
to then turn back (right) to the same direction,
which I call a "W turn; clearly,
such is skirting the law, but you really tend
to do that with those one-speed "velodrome" bikes,
or just if you are in the flow).

on that regard, it is really a bad idea
to "hug the gutter" or to ride on sidewalks, as
both of those obscure drivers' view of you, as
well as making one prone to debris & pedestrians;
it is legal in LACity and County (unincorporated
areas), but not in many other cities,
Santa Monica e.g. -- I have gotten that ticket!

here is "Brian's #1 commentary on bicylcing:"
if you consider those folks on "walkers,"
how many of them dutifully rode their bikes
to school, as children?... so, perhaps,
since bicycling is *really* a quadrepedal thing
-- and a great workout for the arms, two --
that one should, perhaps, not *sit*
during the power-stroke; eh?

--have fun & ride single-file -- and
watch-out for electrical cars (get a magnetometer?)

"Brian's #2 commentary" is,
you're like a Segwayist (segues into, What?),
in that pedestrians *always* have the right-
of-way over your contraption, and
*you* always have the right-of-way
with respect to cars (as do peds).

you have the Manual Segway / lawnmowerman (tm) ??

for what it is worth,
after I'd asked that question
of the "Friday night bike riders"
at the SM Pier, which was after
i had had a significant fall
from my bike, I read an article
in an April issue of the LAtribcoTimes,
stating that heavy riders tend
to have an osteoporosis-like thing,
that causes them to have more bones,
broken -- because a)
it is not as weight-bearing as walking
or running etc., and because b)
you fall from a little height *and*
with horizontal (raod-rashing) momentum.

cross-train, or go "bipolar!"

"my #3 comment" -- ta-dum:
if there were not already *les paths
d'automobile*, you would be very constrained
in your ability to ride. the fact
that most roads are as smooth as they are
-- considering the suspension, beyond the tires,
of cars --
is *because* of cars' acceleration:
it's some kind of civic-engineering *design*. so,
all that you need, most of the time, is that
"suspension" that is the inflation of your tires
(of course, pro "tour" tires are twice or more
pressurized than the usual 65psi tire, and
are bumpier).

The streets belong to all of us. Car drivers have no right to monopolize their use. Not by a long shot. In fact it's silly to continue pursuing the car as our main transportation. It's expensive for both the consumer and society. Get on a bike and become healthy.

The laws here need to be more progressive such as in European countries where the size of the vehicle is proportionate to liability.

I'm a motorist and a bicyclist. It's true those people are too often rude, wreckless & dangerous lawbreakers, but not all of them, not all of the time. Most don't really want to be that way, but they don't know what else to do or to expect from the others.

Larry,
Simply playing referee between complaining cyclists & motorists is not sufficient. What's needed most is comprehensive education for all road users! (eg. 'minimum speed' on streets? HA!)
Comprehensive Education for: drivers, bicyclists, & law enforcement.
Comprehensive Education about: the law, safe vehicle operation, respect for the rights of other road users.
Comprehensive Education that is significantly similar for each type of road user (Drivers Ed). For example Max blogged about motorcyclists (class M license), I didn't know. That info helps me to understand and know what to expect from motorcyclists on the road. Comprehensive Education needs to start at the beginning in Drivers Ed. It needs to be reinforced in traffic school and on into the courts...

On balance, the info in these blog entries here is better than what was presented in your program. How about doing a concise program series that starts by laying a factual base then continuing on to explore needs and options with; advocates, safety experts, regulators, council members etc.

Among many good comments I say 'ditto' to what these posters have said here: Don, Stephen Villavaso, Susan, Patrick, Max, & DJ Wheels.

re: mynameisBrian

ok, appreciate your sentiment, but most of what you said doesn't make sense. try reading back over what you wrote, and you'll see what i mean. it's a shame, because you did in fact bring up some points that don't seem to have been mentioned in the nearly hundred comments above yours, but it's nearly impossible to be sure what you're trying to say.

also, don't constantly hit the 'enter'
key at random
points in your sentences like
you're writing a poem.

see what i mean? much harder to read when i do that.

sorry if this comes off rude, especially if you're not a native english speaker. but some people just post and don't even attempt to edit or be concise or be sure that what they've written makes sense. don't be one of those people!