In 2006, Charles Fleming, a sufferer of chronic back pain, was told by his doctor that he’d need to undergo his third back surgery in three years. Instead of going under the knife, he decided to walk – specifically up and down public staircases – to cure his pain. Four years later, he’s climbed over 200 of LA’s forgotten stairways, from the Castellamare district in the Pacific Palisades to La Loma Road in Pasadena. And, he’s charted his explorations in Secret Stairs: A Walking Guide to the Historic Staircases of Los Angeles, which includes 42 self-guided hikes through LA’s past. Fleming joins Larry to recount the architectural history of the LA’s hidden steps – some might be easier to find than you think.