If you want to “save” marriage, should you outlaw divorce?

Is this guy a member of the Taliban?

I strongly disagree with this for one reason:
Abusive relationships. By denying women and men the right to divorce you are insisting that abusive relationships remain. How is this good?

Hah! I love the Swiftian modest proposal method. Brilliant use of satire. Sadly I don't think people will get the joke. Love it, though.

allow all to have marriage!!!!!

I've been saying this very same thing for years, if only cynically, and I admire the spirit of Mr. Marcotte's endeavor.

However, if it were up to me, I'd prefer an initiative completely eliminating the state's involvement in marriage. Let people be taxed and treated equally, no matter their life commitments, so that each marriage shall be totally personal and contractual, and shall have no effect on the rest of the public.

I'm sorry.. Your guest seems to be pushing more of his religious views (Catholic) on the rest of us. What you do in your home is your own business. Don't forget separation of church and state.

This is hillarious! What a way to call out the religious right.

My husband and I were not married in a church. So we have a "civil union" so to speak. Under this law, could our "civil union" be disolved?

This initiative is a frivolous waste of resources in a society that has very limited resources. The funds that are paying for this could be put to better use if they were donated to a general scholarship fund or a food pantry.

Along with the idea of flashing ads on our license plates, this qualifies as the stupidest idea of the year.

I think these ideas are how religious states form. I like the "separation of church and state" clause. I think he's making a philosophical argument, but I can't take it seriously.

In the Philippines, there's no divorce but a legal separation proceeding is available because of church and state separation.

Ahh, great joke guys.

If you make divorce illegal, you endanger the lives of people with toxic spouses. It's utterly ridiculous; I hope that the joke is not intentionally vicious.

In one of the recent Bond movies (with Brosnan) the villain had a great device, which she strapped Bond into. It had a big wheel on the back, which moved a rod out against the back of (his) neck, causing slow and painful suffocation along with some other interesting sexual side-effects.

Might use of a device like this be incorporated into the legislation?

I think you should be more specific and write the proposition that those who voted for Prop 8 NOT be allowed to divorce.

I'm surprised that this particular segment warrants Pat's (or for that matter the listener's) attention. For 99% of human history, people enslaved other people, killed with impunity, and otherwise reigned terror on others without any notion of due process in a "might makes right" sense of nobility. So what. History is not the determinative of a legal right nor reflective of the concept that humanity can rise above its barbaric roots.
Mr. Marcotte simply desires to impose on everyone his sense of religious morality via a secular process in an absurd play on Prop 8. Should he also argue that slavery, racial discrimination, and misogyny is appropriate because (1) some small segment believes so and (2) it is historically correct.. The basis of his rather droning diatribe appears to be based upon "Christian" values even though this precise thinking was abhorred by the founding fathers of this country. What a waste of airtime.

I am not christian not believe in God. But This is so fair.Marrige system has been so abused in many ways. For example, let's talk about immigration. There are so many non-americans come here, find, pay for his/her partner and get married, get green card then get divorced. There are so many pepole who don't deserve marriage abusing this system.

This is great. Marriage is no longer a sacred thing. Stars like Jennifer Lopez get married tons of times. She even had an affair with her current husban while he was married. This makes marriage a joke. I got married but my ex used me for immigration. I regret this with all my heart. I hope that marriage will be again sacred and that we make it harder for people to get married.

These people just need to go away. They are no better than the Taliban.

Why do I need to have some christain a hole dictate what I or others do.

I don't care if gay people want to marry and I don't differentiate whether being gay is a genetic thing or a choice. It doesn't matter. It isn't my choice for myself but also isn't a choice that should be restricted by the religious right wing nut jobs.

These people just need to go away. They are no better than the Taliban with sharia law. Maybe I need to move to Europe to get away from these idiotic morons.

You know what I don't like? Injustice. I'm going to start a ballot initiative against it. That, and flatulence.

Why is NPR giving voice to this idiot!? WTF!?

If we just lock up all the women, or make them wear burkas, they won't tempt men to get divorced! Wrap them rascals!

Tongue in cheek humor run amok. I support same-sex marriage, but I think that the reason that people banned it was because they disliked and were afraid of gay lifestyle. I don't believe that it had anything to do with "protecting the sancitity of marriage." So, for the guest to take up this same false pretense and run so far in the opposite direction borders on the ridiculous.

We actually deal with the subject of Abusive relationships in our video where we covered the signature drive for this measure in Los Angeles. See that video here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzjpAYwbFQE

Sooooo funny! I love it. But satire, as the highest form of comedy, is often misunderstood.

Fred Chuang - hahahaaa... I couldn't agree more!!!

This is so very backwards and I cannot understand the logic behind it. If your religion bans divorce, then don't get divorced- but do not make your religion my law. Maybe we need to spend more time on fostering loving, positive relationships between ALL people rather than condemn people to a life a marriage. I do not believe most people enter marriage because they can simply get divorced, it is too expensive and too much trouble to be so frivolous about it. And requiring people to procreate?!?! Now he is bringing in the Bible again- we have separation of church and state for a reason- this is it.

I forgot to say that this ban on divorce is as rediculous as prop 8 which will eventually be found to be a violation of the equal protection clause of the U.S. Constitution.

I presume this is being proposed tongue-in-cheek and that the proposer wants to underline the unfairness of Prop. 108--he said at one point that we either do as he suggests or revisit the issue of gay marriage--I presume that he is aware that it is being revisited, and that many civil liberties lawyers feel that the issue is probably resolved in favor of marriage for all (14th amendment equal protection) and that it is just a matter of time to bring this right into broad based legal recognition.

Hey commenters, the guy isn't for real.
It's a joke, it's a comment on the absurdity of Prop 8 and its bigoted supporters.
See also "tongue in cheek".
Tongue-in-cheek is a term used to refer to humor in which a statement, or an entire fictional work, is not meant to be taken seriously, but its sarcasm is subtle. The Oxford English Dictionary defines it as "Ironic, slyly humorous; not meant to be taken seriously

"Sacha
3 minutes ago

Why is NPR giving voice to this idiot!? WTF!?"

Because unlike KFI 640 KPCC actually has fair and balanced programing.

He's got it all wrong. Ban marriage and all the problems go away. No more divorce and no more Prop 8 quarrels. John is clearly a retarded thinker.

We've weathered the gay storm, now we must weather the divorce storm.

Pat -why are you wasting valuable airtime on this f***ing lunatic? The next time he gets a headache he should see a proctologist.

I would imagine that if this were to pass that less people will even bother to get married. The laws that give married people an advantage over un- or never- married poeple need to be repealled for complete fairness.

While this is a good first step, I'd like to see legislation requiring traditional marriage to be, well - even more traditional. Mandate that all marriages be arranged marriages, require a dowry, and declare that wives are personal property.

I so wanted to call in, but I was driving.

This goes along with my plan to change the California Constitution to define pet ownership as only the relationship between people and dogs. I have a dog and I feel that the fact that other people have cats and other animals that they consider to be pets diminishes the relationship I have with my dog.

The only reason I have not started my campaign already is that the number of signatures needed is intimidating. However, if Rescue Marriage gets on the ballot, maybe I will try as well.

This will fly in the face of supporters of Prop 8. They proclaim that they wanted to save the sanctity of marriage, but really it was all about hate. If they disagree with me on this, then they should support this Prop since it will further protect the sanctity of marriage.

Patt. He is not a moron. He ranks right up there with Jonathan Swift. But shouldn't this be on Comedy Congress? PS I am starting a Patt Morrison Brigade to protect you against people like that woman who called in earlier this week to criticize you for not showing both sides of a subject. We will find such people, bury them up to their necks in ant holes, and bring you to the site and provide you with a jar of honey to pour on their heads. Volunteers--send me money so I can start buying uniform caps, ala Patt style!

As usual, Poe's Law reigns on the internet, unless people are simply unwilling to entertain the idea of satire being a valid method for exposing the truth.

I also find it curious how many, many people instantly label anything they disagree with, or more accurately, don't understand, as "the Taliban." As in, "People who don't get satire are like the Taliban." Except I think it's probably true that the Taliban doesn't get satire either...

Hysterical! That so many listeners missed the point just makes it that much better.

I don't know which is funnier. The clear, witty satire, or the plebs that just don't get it?

I was driving and so couldn't call in either.

BRAVO! [stands and applauds] This segment (on both sides) was genius.

I think most adults are astude enough in this day and age to know that people in whatever occupation (from politician, religious leader etc...to ordinary person)will put on a front and pretend to be one way, meanwhile be 'privately' doing something else (until caught). That is where I think that old cliche comes from, who is without sin cast the first stone. I don't believe in sin, I do believe in right and wrong though. "Legistlating" morality? Well, that just leads to more hypocrisy. I say end hypocrisy and legistlate morality on yourself first (see if you can get that right). It is a scary proposition that makes people believe that government, which means, 'other people' belong in the private affairs of other citizens....fellow country men/women. Wrong! Sure we would all like end divorce along with all other bad things in the world, but certainly legally ending divorce doesn't begin to even scractch the surface to the internal goings on and problems in personal relationships. If you want to stop any social ill, well, you first must be honest about it when confronting the problem. There for certain is no 'moral majority' there are people who think of themselves as such, because they are not held under the microscope. Being in California, let me propose another crazy idea, lets given the 'morality phonies' a state all to themselves and lets see how they make out. Let's see who wants to live there. Really?

Satire? Satire belongs in the newspaper funny pages, it does not propose legislation and request signatures. No, even scarier, people think like this in this country now and have the audacity to push their crazy thinking on everyone else. Soon we will return to witch trials. Think of all the people who have to suffer before there is a return to reason, if ever this time.

Too narrow. He should also prohibit annulments, and to prevent going out of state, should change it to a Constitutional amendment. Further, we should shift our troops away from Iraq and Afganistan and focus on all the countries that presently allow divorce to force them to comply with our new rule. To prevent couples from having outside affairs, he should also allow or even require polygamy and polyandry. I'm not sure how to deal with all the wives who would circumvent this law by murdering their husbands.

My first thought was, California is going to hell in a handbag. Then when the "advertisement" was played and the woman said that she would forever feel guilty for enjoying that sense of liberation (or something like that), I realized it was a satire. I think he also stated a comedian was involved. It was a great satire because it points out the absurdity of legislating morality.

i am so f***ing sick of self-righteous, brainwashed Jesus Freaks foisting their morally bankrupt fantasies on the rest of society. allowing children to die for want of proper medical attention. babies drowned in baptismal fonts. justifying rape as women tempting men with immodest clothing. justifying murder in protection of “unborn” blastocytes. parents ignoring priests raping their children, stealing from congregations and having adulterous affairs, all the while receiving ridiculously generous housing allowances and paying no property or income taxes, as well as having unquestioned respect simply for being ‘servants of God.’ uckh! - you disgust me utterly.

what’s next? stoning to death for simply being LGBT? or adultery? or sex before marriage (Bristol Palin)? or eating shellfish and working on Sundays? and how about forced marriages of girls under 10 to men over 50? that and plenty more are all “God’s laws” in the Bible, and i’m sure someone could find a way to justify legally requiring female genital excision and sewing vaginas shut till marriage - just like Ayaan Hirsi Ali says is already happening HERE in her book “Nomad.” Remember what Jesus said in Luke 14:26 about “family values” (oh, that’s not hate, that’s love - yeah right), read “The Family” by Jeff Sharlet, and watch “In The Life.” http://www.inthelifetv.org/html/episodes/119.html

thank you patt. thank you mr. marcotte for your brilliantly targeted satire - i hope you actually educate a few of the passive supporters of Prop Hate legislation. and for those of you who scoff - i have already signed this petition because if i (as a human being who happens to be gay) have to live under these deluded, archaic religious doctrines made civil law, then everyone should. and now, a rant…

[sorry, site posted parts out of order] pt 3

and before you liberal Christians start in - i know perfectly well ‘not everyone believes like that,’ but you all accuse each other of not being “True Christians,” so how am i to know? (and why should i care) And what you accommodationist wimps don’t seem to realize is that it is already worse than you think. Check out Michelle Bachmann and You Can Run But You Can’t Hide (http://gods4suckers.net/archives/2010/06/05/bradlee-dean-friends-an-american-horror-story/) and Target stores supporting the rise of the new American Taliban. ‘But we have to respect other people’s religion.’ NO WE DON’T. We don’t sanction polygamy, even though the Mormons claim they don’t preach that anymore. We don’t allow Aztec human sacrifices. We don’t throw children and virgins into Mt. St. Helen’s. We don’t do that kind of barbaric s*** (or do we? see first paragraph again) - but we will if these totalitarian ideologues get their way - “one step at a time” - no matter how felicitous and patronizing their lies and deceptions.

pt 4
every time i see someone wearing an instrument of torture (a crucifix) around their neck, i shudder. the Nazi’s ruined the Indians’ Whirling Logs for everyone, but it makes you wonder if Jesus were killed today, would Christians be wearing little electric chairs or lethal injection syringes? every time someone says they’re praying for me, i want to turn and run because i’m afraid of which god they might be praying to and what they hope for me - especially if they have no way of knowing who i am, or what i believe or don’t - and especially when i’m in the hospital or a police officer is asking me questions…

as for overuse of the epithet ‘Taliban’ - if controlling people’s personal lives and thoughts through imposition of religious “morals” into governmental regulations doesn’t describe Prop 8 et al, well i’m sorry but i don’t know what would.

keep your religion to yourself and pray in private, like Jesus said to. keep religion out of government. stop believing lies your preacher told you, and learn the facts. “The universe is not magic.” - Sean Carroll

on a lighter note - http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010/07/more_savage_than_natural_men.php

www.rescuemarriage.org explains everything

Love all the "don't make your religion my law" angry statements.
What would you call Proposition 8?
People are all too eager to take away the rights of others to "save marriage", but balk at limiting your own rights to end the REAL threat to marriage.
The Bible addresses divorce far more often and clearly than it does homosexuality.
If you voted for Prop 8 and you do not support this, you are a hypocrite.

Why don't we do one better. Since one of the main arguments of Prop 8 was that marriage is for procreation, which is clearly impossible with same sex relationships, require all couples to go through fertility testing before they can marry. If you are infertile, you cannot marry.

It's so great to see so many of the people in this thread simply not get it.

If you did your investigation - and possessed any sense of abstract thought and humor - you'd see that Mr. Marcotte is using this vehicle to illustrate a hypocrisy. That hypocrisy being the notion that gays are denied marriage rights to protect the "traditional definition of marriage," the one going back to the dawn of time, then divorce needs to be thrown under the bus too.

Mr. Marcotte is trying to get opponents to gay marriage to admit that their objections have less to do about preservation of tradition, integrity of the family, or promotion of procreation, and more to do with just one thing: gays are icky.

I support this initiative and plan to collect signatures for it.

Divorce should be illegal, so what if you have an abusive spouse, there are lots of couples with one spouse in jail. Just because you are married to someone, doesn't mean you have to live with them or that they have to know where you are. You gave your word and you aren't dead yet. How moral is it to turn an abusive person loose on other unsuspecting people, stay married to the abuser and protect others.

This movement also directly targets California's KRAZY initiative process, which essentially allows any crackpot with enough backing to create laws that take away rights of individuals or make certain activities compulsory. With enough signatures, this will be on the November 2012 ballot for all Californians to vote on. If enough California voters agree that protecting marriage is as important as this measure asserts, indeed as important as it was in Prop 8 to restrict certain people from getting married, then all your marriage are belong to forever. And Ever. Amen.

Patt, I think you're a bright light on the air. But why in hell are we wasting valuable time on such nonsense. If this guy is trying to tie this to passage of Prop. 8, he's in a losing situation already because I'm reasonably certain that Prop. 8 will be history, if not this year then the very next time we get to vote on gay marriage. Does anyone really care about gay marriages anymore? Possibly the elderly, of which I am certainly one. But we are fading from the scene. The younger ones, so much more tolerant than we, consider this a non-issue.

John Marcotte is brilliant. I hope his petition succeeds and divorce gets banned in California. If those Californians can ban gay marriage, then they can jolly well live without divorce.

Years ago when I lived in South America, countries like Chile and Argentina had no-divorce laws. The result? Separated couples often practiced concubinage with new partners instead, thus illegitimizing subsequent offspring, depriving the cohabitating couples of a number of legal prerogatives, and by all intents creating 1st and 2nd class citizens. To circumvent this predicament in Chile, couples who bothered to do so resorted to annulments instead, which basically meant that they had to lie to the civil courts in order for judges to grant them legal revocations of their marriages on trumped-up technicalities. In 1987, Argentina finally legalized divorce, while it wasn't until 2004 that Chile finally did.

Ha, Ha, with so many nutcase people with nutcase ideas, it can be hard to see through the Stop Being a Sinner, Come to Jesus picket signs and laugh about it. There are so many people who could have been given a voice and KPCC should have picked a better segment. I don't want to live under any kind of regime what so ever.

I love all the people here who refer to the "separation of church and state" clause. There is no such clause. Apparently, no one even reads the Constitution anymore.

I love this idea and movement!!!!! It is the best approach to revealing the hypocirsy that is government involvement in the personal affairs fo people.

It is sad that so many don't understand satire.... Good stuff.

Great story, it's amazing how many people don't understand Mr. Marcotte's point and the satire of the piece. I applaud Mr. Marcotte for starting a discussion and holding people accountable for their votes

The initiative process is used mainly by corporate interests to flummox the public. Best wishes and may this become the last proposition to pass before elimination of ballot initiatives altogether.

We've become self-conscious and defensive people who are conditioned to always be needy and always think life is better elsewhere. We have lost the beauty and ugliness of being unawaredly human. Our collective culture has been diluted to mush and now we swim in a pool of dribble.

But all is not lost. We have laws and if we are not too absolute we can struggle through married and unmarried to respect each other enough to tolerate what is different and be thankful that we have a choice; or maybe being intolerant and having no choice would teach us gratitude and some humility.

Stroke of genus. And get a load of all the people panicking as if "Scott" (heh) in his heart of hearts really believes all this.

There is a Japanese saying "The Nail that Sticks Up will be hammered down". It may be culturally foreign to most Americans but it is the new reality in this country whether you like it or not. Power wants robots and that is what they will have. They will have it. You can fight against it, but remember that saying and understanding that is the choice of the many and you will be very alone trying to fight against it. People choose to be robots because it is easier. Preprogrammed algorithms of thought, nice; allowable distractions, smooth mechanisms of social functionality, love it. We will all have the same thoughts, same choices, same religion, same acceptable social distractions, same socially acceptable occupations, eventually we will all be the same racially (blond haired and blue eyed), we will all smile, we will be all be happy because there will be no differences, no ugliness, no poverty because there will be an allowable population, we will all be born into a society that is stratified and we will accept our place in it. God will have ordained the king, the leader, the rich and ordained the toilet cleaner. We will eugenicize ourselves to racial purity and social harmony, complete happiness, smiling happy faces all the time, we will be vacuous in mind and free from worry, life is great like this. I see it now. I want it now. I accept it now. I am pro it now. I am against anyone or anything against the machine of perfection and harmony. We must all accept this and neutralize all against the perfect union of harmony envisioned by our religious masters. They are the masters because God has said it to be so. You must accept this. I too want to be happy and will die to serve the masters of social harmony. Rid the world of my dark brown skin, anticlericalness, belief in justice, social mobility, diversity, thought of all kinds, acceptable sex, acceptable music, acceptable drugs and money. You tell me what to think and believe because I am not capable of it. No longer the cog in the wheel, the dirty in a well oiled machine. I love big brother! I love big brother. Say it all and believe it. I love big brother. You have the world, every square inch, save us from our rotten, unhappy selves.